Garmin Montana

Discussion in 'Mapping & Navigation' started by AugustFalcon, May 18, 2011.

  1. Ken in Regina

    Ken in Regina Long timer Supporter

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    I suspect you're right. Now that I think of it I've replaced maps a number of times in the past and didn't run into this problem.

    I plan to do something different for a change .. radical for me. Usually if I come to the realization that the problem is deeper/more complicated, I keep digging. You know the old adage "If it ain't broke you aren't trying hard enough." Well, this time I'm going to stop right here. Clearing the cache stopped the problem. So I'm going to leave it alone.

    You saw it here first.

    ...ken...
  2. Riteris

    Riteris Dessert Runner

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    You bring up a good point. I am probably never going to navigate in Chinese or any number of languages.

    So, I would like to delete them.

    But, if I were to delete a language (Basque, for instance) will this affect any type guidance should I find myself in that part of the world(again?)

    In other words, is the language only for voice prompts or does it affect anything else?
  3. Grinnin

    Grinnin Forever N00b Supporter

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    There are 3 kinds of language files that I know of: .gtt, .sum, and .vpm.

    You can see what's in the .gtt files; they're simple XML files that you can open in any dumb text editor. They give translations from what I assume are internal variables resembling English into the text string that will be displayed. They include everything from "left" and "right" to "setup" and "accept" to "green to starboard".

    I ASS-umed that the voice files (.sum and .vpm) were for the same things. I.e. that all the language files are selected by the "language" option in the settings.

    I also don't use voice prompts, so if those language files are for that, I don't even need English .sum and .vpm files although I don't know so I retained English and a few other languages.

    And last, I have backups of everything so if I do need those files I can restore them. (May require extra steps if I discover this in the Basque region.)
    Ken in Regina likes this.
  4. simon crewe

    simon crewe Been here awhile

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    Deleting the language files is not a big issue, as they are all available to download in the 'utilities' section of Garmin Express.
  5. wbbnm

    wbbnm Long timer

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    I was getting this message a lot a few years ago. I finally tracked it down to the fact that I had upgraded CN on my computer for Basecamp but not on the Montana.
    After I installed the new version on the Montana, the problem went away. YMMV
  6. Ogre_fl

    Ogre_fl Long timer

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    I am still trouble shooting my Montana issues and just got that error when I tried routing to an item from my recent finds.
    FWIW I was swapping between 2015 & 2016 maps.
    I had found back in 2016 that Garmin/Here had made some pretty major changes in the road speed ratings and suspect the maps are not as similar as they may appear.
    I think that might be why your recent finds sometimes work between version update and sometimes dont, depending on how much they changed the maps between versions.
    Ken in Regina likes this.
  7. Ken in Regina

    Ken in Regina Long timer Supporter

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    My problem was sort of backwards to that. First I should say that I have no routes on the Montana from Basecamp. If there was routing stored - and there likely was - it was cached from the previous time I routed to that town a couple of weeks ago.

    Specifically, if I plug the Montana into Basecamp or just search the main memory and the SD card with File Explorer, there are no actual route files anywhere on the device. So any routing conflict it is seeing has to be just something it has cached somewhere from the previous use.

    I had updated CN on Basecamp a month or so ago but not on the Montana. There was a year difference between the CN maps on the Montana and Basecamp. But the routing for those recent finds had worked just fine.

    My problem occurred when I updated the maps on the Montana to match the version on Basecamp.

    There may still be an underlying gremlin in there somewhere but as long as it's working I'm not going to mess with it any further. At least that's what I keep telling myself... :-)

    ...ken...
  8. Ken in Regina

    Ken in Regina Long timer Supporter

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    There are three things the language files are used for.

    1. The user interface of the Garmin device, so you can interact with it in the language you choose. From that will follow:
    2. Map labelling, and
    3. Voice directions.

    If you don't care about anything on the Montana being in the language of the country you're in, you can safely delete the language files for it. Just remember to use the Anglicized version (if you're using English or American) of location names when you do a search.

    ...ken...
  9. SteveAZ

    SteveAZ Long timer

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    Why waste even two neurons thinking about the language files? They take about 400MB in mine.... with a 32GB SD it's a trivial amount of space (~1% of total)


    Just my .02
  10. Grinnin

    Grinnin Forever N00b Supporter

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    Why wouldn't someone want to remove unnecessary files? 400MB is hundreds of long days of tracks.

    I'm Planning a dirt route that may be 12,000 or many more miles, with many alternative tracks loaded, sufficient time to wander around, and a Garmin map bought on SD in the slot. The Montana has plenty of memory for this trip, but why should I take unnecessary files when I won't be able to connect to a computer to clean up the files during the trip. I'm not going to get a Windows computer just to download maps if I can avoid it.

    Your way should work fine. So should other ways.

    I don't know why @Riteris wants to delete them, but I'm not going to just assume he's wrong.
  11. wbbnm

    wbbnm Long timer

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    I bet the bike will be a lot lighter with all those files removed.
  12. Riteris

    Riteris Dessert Runner

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    I see the files as taking up storage. And possibly causing the device to crash.

    Yes, it is minimal storage and probably not causing the gps to crash. I just don’t see myself navigating in Mandarin, Thai, Korean, etc. Why have it if I don’t need it? It can always be put back.

    I have navigated in a number of countries with languages I do not speak and until now, I never thought about switching the language. (I even navigated in South Carolina and never thought about changing the language.) I believe these different countries did use the Latin alphabet though. Most of the time I could figure out the signage in whatever country I was in. Western Ireland and the Basque region were exceptions though.

    Because I use the Montana in Europe, I keep the card slot for European maps. I save the tracks in the Montana which is nearing capacity.

    I apologize for the turmoil my question raised.
    TwoUpTourer, Ken in Regina and wbbnm like this.
  13. Ken in Regina

    Ken in Regina Long timer Supporter

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    No apologies needed. It was an excellent question.

    ...ken...
    Grinnin likes this.
  14. SteveAZ

    SteveAZ Long timer

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    No turmoil... I've never used one of the preloaded cards and it's understandable if you can't use a memory card since it's occupied with the preloaded card, then the space on internal storage is more dear

    I've never really understood/appreciated the use case for the preloaded cards but that's a different topic for turmoil :D
  15. Ken in Regina

    Ken in Regina Long timer Supporter

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    There are [at least] two typical use cases: one benefits users; the other benefits Garmin.

    They're handy for the users who don't really care to understand anything about map management, which can be somewhat intimidating. Just pop the card in the device and you're good to go. Also you can easily switch it between multiple devices without any learning curve.

    For Garmin it's a money maker. If I have Lifetime Maps they only get to charge me once and then I get updates for the life of the device. Or for those of us who were fortunate enough to buy a Lifetime Maps subscription independently of a device, back when you still could, updates are available indefinitely. With the SD card you don't get updates.

    When you decide you want updated maps you have to buy a new card.

    When the card gets lost you have to buy a new card.

    When the data on the card gets gibbled you have to buy a new card.

    Etc.

    Like anything else in life you make the tradeoff that works best for you.

    ...ken...
  16. SteveAZ

    SteveAZ Long timer

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    Another thing I never felt like wasting a couple of neurons on but your description makes it clear why I hadn't ever! :wink:

    In all reality I run more than one mapset - several... on top of that I wouldn't ever want to be limited to the only [writable] nonvolatile storage being the internal :nod

    The only attention I pay to the internal is to retrieve logs and the few waypoints created with the unit

    Frankly even if I didn't have the SD memory for storage I still wouldn't worry about space for track logs... looking at my archives I see 1MB for ~6500 points... I think it would take a long time to eat it up with logs
  17. Grinnin

    Grinnin Forever N00b Supporter

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    I have purchased 3 maps on SD. Two of them were before DSL was available where I live.

    Updating maps on a nuvi I had required going to the library to use a Windows computer, downloading the NET framework, downloading a Garmin program, then updating the maps. It was really a PITA, could take a few hours, and wasn't going to help for an Alaska/Inuvik trip since that nuvi map didn't include Canada. The easy solution was just to buy a map that included Canada on SD instead of buying a different GPS.

    I can move my Garmin map on SD to a different Garmin whenever I want, and I do switch it between 2 devices.

    I keep my OSM versions more up-to-date and get maps of different size depending on where I'm doing my riding. Much easier than any download from Garmin. I also download trail maps from a third-party vendor. The vendor and OSM make the process very easy and efficient, unlike Garmin.

    Really there are circumstances where the SD makes sense although I suspect you'll denigrate them anyway.
  18. SteveAZ

    SteveAZ Long timer

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    I'm not denigrating - at least that's not my intention... this is clearly a case of different things work for different people... and I didn't understand those use cases although I never gave them much thought since mine are different... although like pointed out there's not much to worry about when it comes to logs using internal memory - they just don't take much space...

    It's not like the [bad] old days where the *only* add-on memory were garmin proprietary cards that were very small by today's standards, 64MB was expensive! In those days the amount of storage for logs was minuscule compared to today where just the internal memory even after putting a mapset on them is vast... thus not stressing about it...
    Grinnin likes this.
  19. Grinnin

    Grinnin Forever N00b Supporter

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    It's not just the logs I'm clearing space for. There are other other map sets besides Garmin and other peoples' tracks for potential trails in 23 states and several provinces. This next trip has a rough plan, but a whole lot of options available depending on weather, our progress, and our experiences with tracks by different people. We will have lots of route finding along the way even after taking thousands of miles of other peoples' tracks as options.

    The Montana has enough memory for that.

    I may also use the Montana for some photos. The space used by language files can hold 250 photos of gas pump and odometer to let us look later at fuel consumption and cost without chasing after receipts from pumps that are jammed or don't have them. Another rider uses Fuelly and spends a few minutes every stop with that. I'd rather just record it and move on. I could use the phone for these photos, but the Montana is right there.

    I get that it's easy to put in 32G for enough that you don't have to clean out a half gigabyte of memory.

    EDIT: You're also not the person setting up strawmen to make maps purchased on SD cards out to be stupid.

    On putting a 32GB card in your Montana, I could use a variation on what Ken wrote: "They're handy for the users who don't really care to understand anything about memory management, which can be somewhat intimidating. Just pop a big card in the device and you're good to go." The difference is that I know that while it's equally accurate, it's an incredibly narrow-minded view.
  20. SteveAZ

    SteveAZ Long timer

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    I see... you definitely have a very different "mission" for the unit than I and so no wonder I was/am ignorant to your concerns since they are very different than mine...

    I always log my fuel usage - not really sure why, just been doing it for decades so mostly old habit... The camera thing is a good idea although my montana doesn't have a camera - I no longer use my montana for much anyway, I've been using a different unit for a few years now... Still, I might try taking a picture with my ipod if I'm in a hurry at the pump.... It has plenty of built-in memory :lol2