Garmin Montana

Discussion in 'Mapping & Navigation' started by AugustFalcon, May 18, 2011.

  1. TwoUpTourer

    TwoUpTourer Long timer

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    I have a test session with a few friends tomorrow night to test out the material I'm intending to present, and in general I'm not going to say much about routes as they are so unreliable for the adventure riding style they do. I'll be focusing predominantly on tracks, which unless I'm doing beeline t the beginning or end of the day to get too/from home, I use solely.
  2. TwoUpTourer

    TwoUpTourer Long timer

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    I've been doing a lot of reading up on GPX files recently as a lead up to this class I'm running where I'm the "expert", a relative term for sure when I'm at least confident I know more than them, but amongst this group here, no where near as confident!:D

    So I created a short route in our local city of Adelaide, using Basecamp, Google MyMaps and Plotaroute, so that I could read and compare the output for each, including both a route and a track. And very interesting it was too.
    • Plotaroute.com for instance, when doing a route, regardless of whatever route I mapped, did nothing more than provide the destination co-ordinates, leaving it entirely up to the GPSs internal routing engine to make the decision as to which way it goes . This makes sense to me.
    • Plotaroute.com tracks are just a sequence of co-ordinates dotting the specified path. Also makes sense.
    • Basecamp routes have voluminous text surrounding a long sequence of co-ordinates forcing the GPS to follow the specified path, with what is presumably equally voluminous directions between each one.
    • Basecamp tracks are similar, but no directions between the co-ordinates.
    • Google MyMaps, after GPSVisualizer conversion to GPX route from KML, appear to be more like a track, though I have not tested it.
    What it seems to me is that in most cases, the GPS is doing a half-half job, whereby it picks up the next co-ordinate from the sequence in the GPX file, and then uses its own routing engine to either mark out a track line or, in the case of a route, determine a path plus directions to the next co-ordinate.

    If there were a zillion points in between this would probably not be necessary, but where co-ordinates are quite some distance apart, then something must be taking over to provide that guidance.
    So a question to the GPX gurus, is what I'm saying make any sense? Or befuddled half-truths?
    BergDonk likes this.
  3. guavadude

    guavadude Dirt Nap Enthusiast

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    I have two monitors and always use Google maps on one screen and Basecamp on the other when planning and creating tracks. You just can’t beat GM for its database, terrain and satellite views. After creating the tracks in BC, I export them and import into GM, then I delete all the start and end point icons and change the colors. This gives me a nice Google map I can use on the ride for an overview.

    After the ride, I create new lists in BC with my actual tracks created during the ride. I import these into GM as well and I can easily see the comparison between the two. So I end up with something like this
    Long Way 'Round the Rockies 2017 v3.0
    https://goo.gl/maps/N42maEenJYS6obuUA

    Also pre-trip, In BC once I have created each day’s track I take screen shots of the tracks. I print these out to use as an overview and keep them on my tankbag. I also create a pdf containing each day’s track per page and keep that on my phone. Once you zoom out on the Montana it’s impossible to see any detail.

    All of this gives me several ways to quickly see an overview of each day’s ride or the entire trip.
  4. guavadude

    guavadude Dirt Nap Enthusiast

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    You don’t need to create KML before importing tracks into Google My Maps. Just Drag and drop the gpx file when importing.

    Tracks are shown in all gps devices exactly as you laid them out in Basecamp. They are not being re-computed at all. And tracks will prompt you with directions if you hit GO on the Montana.

    Routes are always being re-computed and can vary in output based on mapset and gps model. I always follow tracks on a ride. I only use routes if I need to create a route on the fly by dropping a few waypoints on the map or if I want the gps to compute the fastest or shortest way to a waypoint, like gas, food or home.
    wbbnm likes this.
  5. TwoUpTourer

    TwoUpTourer Long timer

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    Are you using these maps as routes or tracks?
    My mapper of choice is Plotaroute half because it uses Google Maps' road and aerial photography, and half because of the great tools and fine tools for post editing. I use tracks only, avoiding the effects of any other settings and the unexpected effects they might influence.
  6. guavadude

    guavadude Dirt Nap Enthusiast

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    I import tracks into Google MyMaps. I only create and use tracks on rides. I use Basecamp to create tracks and to organize by state and ride/region.

    I haven’t use Plotaroute but I have used several like that before and they always go under or disappear after awhile. I know Google isn’t going anywhere and I can easily share my GMaps with family or anyone and know they don’t have to sign up for something just to see them.
  7. TwoUpTourer

    TwoUpTourer Long timer

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    I worked my way through a pile of these plotting sites, settling on Plotaroute about 5 years ago as being by far having the best features, but like you, for publishing purposes, I import the GPX into Google MyMaps so that I can share to all and sundry, and now have quite a library of them there.

    Plotaroute does have a free option, but that doesn't include the Google maps or aerial photography, which makes it worth the small fee to me on its own.

    Anyway, so you used tracks for all of that Rocky Mountains riding?
  8. wbbnm

    wbbnm Long timer

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    I went to a Basecamp intro class last year put on by our local Adventure Riding group. The gal doing the class only talked about routes. Neither her nor anybody else in the class seemed to really know what tracks were.

    I enlightened them a little. It was interesting to hear her different take on various features of Basecamp. It was like we weren't using the same program.
    One thing I did get of it is that I now use the separate inset window for scrolling. It works much better than the arrows on the edge of the screen. I was only vaguely aware of its existence.

    I am going to try the trick of dragging tracks into Google Maps. That sounds useful.

    I have been using routes a lot more lately for pavement driving in my truck. Getting advance warning and details on turns in heavy traffic on city streets is nice. I also really like the way Google Maps has real time knowledge of construction delays and detours and traffic accident delays. I have learned to turn my brain off to the recalculation messages when I intentionally deviate from the given route.
    duggram likes this.
  9. AlH

    AlH Long timer

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    Sometimes Google Maps is completely wrong on delays- ie showing red on the map. I've been burned a few times going way out my way to avoid a red road only to find there wasn't an issue at all. Most of the time though it is a good resource.
    There is an interesting reason for it sometimes- say 6 pickups with 4 guys in each- all working together on a job and all pull off the road together.
    Google sees it as 24 vehicles (phones) suddenly not moving and issues a red alert.

    Then there is this guy:lol3
    https://www.engadget.com/2020-02-03-google-maps-traffic-jams-art-project.html
    biker128pedal likes this.
  10. duggram

    duggram Sunrise Bahia de LA Supporter

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    Are you coming down for the RCR this year, if we have it? It sure would be nice if you gave a little discussion on using Basecamp and the Montana. You could even do it in the brewery. I'm always looking for good instruction.
  11. Ken in Regina

    Ken in Regina Long timer Supporter

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    Regarding your observation of the GPS's role in this for routing:Yes.

    ...ken...
  12. SteveAZ

    SteveAZ Long timer

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    Well before there was a GPS constellation I was involved in map and compass (orienteering) training for backcountry navigation

    When affordable portable GPS units started becoming available in the mid-90's I used to train on those but always started with basic map and compass before touching the units... admittedly using the units back then was closer to map and compass

    Anyway, like most things learned there is foundational knowledge that will help utilizing skills that are abstracted from that foundational knowledge (e.g. electronic navigation usage) and I still go through basic map and compass (including touching on pilotage) with anyone that wishes to learn about how to use a GPS for navigation - particularly for off-road, marine or aviation (nothing much to train when it comes to entering an address and following instructions from stephen hawking)... people these days seem to have less patience for it but I'm still in the camp that they are better users if they have that basic instruction first

    YMMV
    DRTBYK, BergDonk and Ken in Regina like this.
  13. Ken in Regina

    Ken in Regina Long timer Supporter

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    Beware of storing stuff on Google's MyMaps. Make certain you have backups for all of it because Google arbitrarily deletes it at some point. I suspect it's time based but don't yet have enough experience to state for certain. The truly annoying thing is that you get no notice that it's about to disappear and no notification when it does disappear.

    I discovered this the hard way. A couple of years ago I added a trip to the west coast and back to one of the travel threads in here. I took my GPS tracks of the trip and edited them into one track for the trip out and another track for the trip back, with appropriate annotations added for some of the stops of interest. I spent a lot of time developing those two tracks before posting to that thread. In addition, my posts to the thread were primarily a travelogue that depended on the two tracks to illustrate.

    I checked back to that thread a few months ago and discovered that the links to the tracks on Google's MyMaps were broken. After a bit of investigation it turned out they were broken because the tracks had disappeared from MyMaps, along with some other tracks I had put there around the same time.

    I was not impressed. :(

    ...ken...
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  14. guavadude

    guavadude Dirt Nap Enthusiast

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    There was a period when Google was reworking the MyMaps section and stuff would disappear. The new setup seems to be finished although they occasionally add features. I’ve not seen any of the problems aside from the previous growing pains. But yes, backup everything and don’t rely on it.

    Dualsportmaps.com used to be a great place to store and find gpx files. I spent a lot of time organizing and sharing stuff there and now that site is gone. It’s a shame Garmin and google can’t get along because I’d much rather have Google’s database and maps show up in Basecamp than Yelp which isn’t that good.
  15. nadol

    nadol n00b

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    Hi Guyz, anyone could help me with getting files from garmin folder of Montana 600?
    I just deleted content of garmin folder at internal memory instead of on SD card. Lucky me :(
  16. SteveAZ

    SteveAZ Long timer

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    If you need the entire directory it's about 500MB

    PM me if you want me to put them on my ftp server for you or if you have a site you'd like me to upload them too

    It's not the first time I've done this for folks in the thread :lol2
    Anders-, wbbnm and Yinzer Moto like this.
  17. wbbnm

    wbbnm Long timer

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    Right now I have no plans to come. The NM Covid 14 day quarantine and general hysteria are one reason. I injured my knee Saturday and don't know how long it is going to take to heal.
    But should I come I would be happy to discuss Basecamp and other riding topics over a few beers.
  18. wbbnm

    wbbnm Long timer

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    There are a lot of good tracks on GPSXchange.com. It is organized chronologically and by regions. So it takes some searching to find stuff. You used to have to jump thru a lot hoops to get an active account there.
    I think it took me nearly a month when I first joined back about 10-12 years ago. Hopefully that has changed.
  19. ramz

    ramz Professional Trail Rider Supporter

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    From the web site:

    Gps Track log route exchange Forum
    Gps Track log points exchange for outdoor activities
    Great for Garmin and other GPS to share and exchange track log!
    You need to upload 1 track log to be able to download other's files.

    and later:

    Countdown - Mainly CA and NV - Motorcycle/Dualsport
    This is the Countdown unrestricted library. ANY registered member can download these tracks with out the restriction of first posting a track. Only Countdown can post tracks to this library.

    :ricky
  20. TwoUpTourer

    TwoUpTourer Long timer

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    I have a detailed cheat-sheet PDF on the process of importing a GPX into Google MyMaps that I put together for friends, and if I knew how to attach it here, you could see if it helps you.