Garmin Montana

Discussion in 'Mapping & Navigation' started by AugustFalcon, May 18, 2011.

  1. markbvt

    markbvt Long timer

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    Glad I could help. The XT is a great unit on its own merits, though there are some things I prefer about the Montana. Looks like the Montana 700 mounts are finally becoming available, so hopefully soon I'll be able to do a thorough comparison.

    --mark
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  2. CSpringsRider

    CSpringsRider Been here awhile

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    Has anyone experienced bizarre routing on their Montana 610? If so, is there a way to fix it? My unit has current US City Navigator chip installed, is current on updates via Garmin Express and is set to "Minimize distance" on routing. I frequently ride on local rides with the Montana running, even if I know where I'm going, just to keep the battery charged. I will select a city to navigate to and the device will select a route that is totally inappropriate and many miles out of the way. On my latest ride three days ago, we were about 20 miles from Cripple Creek, CO, on a county road and the Montana told me to turn off the direct route we were following and that it would be 62 miles to my destination. My concern is that some day when I actually need the Montana to tell me how to get somewhere, it will take me on a totally inappropriate or excessively long route. As a result, am thinking seriously about a new GPS that I can trust. Any suggestions to fix this would be appreciated.
    Thanks,
    Alden
  3. shu

    shu ...

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    I find that Garmin routes are most predictable and match my "mental routing" better when I set it on Minimize time/ fastest route.

    Minimize distance will often send me down some pretty sketchy roads. Not sure why you got routed on a longer route- check your settings: seasonal closures, etc.


    ...........shu
  4. CSpringsRider

    CSpringsRider Been here awhile

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    We were on KTM 500 bikes so I wanted the sketchy road. LOL We were on Shelf Road, south of Cripple Creek. I knew where I was going but cannot understand when being 20 miles away from Cripple Creek, the Gps was trying to get me to turn around and take a 60 mile route when I had "minimize distance" selected.
    I just checked; I don't have an option to avoid "seasonal closures." At least not in the routing section of the menu. Activity is set on motorcycle driving, lock on road (yes), off route recalculation (automatic), calculation method (minimize distance or minimize time - depending on what I am trying to ride), and avoidance setup only has u-turns selected. Everything else as far as routes is allowed. Any other settings/ menu items I should check?
    Thanks,
    Alden
  5. joefromsf

    joefromsf Dark Happens Supporter

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    @CSpringsRider Its not unheard of (but not very common) for there to be glitches in the Garmin maps. Typically, a road not quite making the connection to an intersecting road that intersect in real life. At almost all zoom levels on the map it looks like they connect, until you get down to max zoom level and can tell there is a tiny gap. Its easier to find the gap in Basecamp by trying to create a route between where you were and where you were trying to get to. If it tries to route you like it did in real life, then keep adding via points to try to see exactly where it avoids your expected route.

    I think I've encountered this 2-3 times in Garmin City Navigator over the years.
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  6. Ken in Regina

    Ken in Regina Long timer Supporter

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    As @joefromsf just said, sometimes it's as simple as an error in the map data. When I run into something like that I do a little testing to see if I can identify the break and notify Garmin of the mapping error so they can fix it in a future update.

    I test with Basecamp first, to see if it gives me the same routing between the same from/to points. That is a good general indicator if it's a difference in the way the unit routes versus Basecamp. Yeah, they have been known to produce different outes.

    If I get the same wonky routing I know I can use Basecamp to do further testing ... quicker and easier than using the unit.

    Regardless whether I'm testing with the unit or Basecamp, I start from the starting point of the wonky route but route to a point quite close to the start point and see if the route is more like what I expect. If that works, move the end of the route out farther and see if it's still sensible.

    Keep doing that until the result is stupid again. Mark that end point and use it as a new start point.

    From the new start point, reverse the procedure ... route to a point on the way back to your original start point and see if it makes sense. If so, move the new end point further back until it goes wonky again.

    You now have to points with the break in data in between and much closer together than the original two points. They may be close enough together that its reasonable to zoom in far enough to visually look for the break. If not, repeat the procedure to get the two points closer together.

    Once you have two points reasonably close together that has the break between them, go online to Garmin and check to see where you go to report bad map data. You have two map points with a break between to report.

    ...ken...
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  7. BergDonk

    BergDonk Old Enough to Know Better

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    Routing also depends on avoidances set. If highways are to be avoided, lots of interesting back roads and tracks some into play.
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  8. wbbnm

    wbbnm Long timer

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    I have had to do exactly what GFKAM described a few times when I got a crazy route due to a missing map segment.

    I do it enough that I pretty much know right away that there is a map or an avoidance problem when I get a totally crazy routing
  9. SteveAZ

    SteveAZ Long timer

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    For some reason montana assumes we are terrified of left turns or u-turns and will route miles out of the way to avoid them - granted map data is essential to good routing but this total avoidance (yes! it's not set to avoid them and it still does!) of lefts and U-turns is silly IMO
  10. CSpringsRider

    CSpringsRider Been here awhile

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    Thanks to all who provided feedback. I'll make a note the next time it happens so I can check the roads in Basecamp. I wasn't trying to create routes in Basecamp; this always has happened when using the Montana for simple navigation on the bike.
  11. Ken in Regina

    Ken in Regina Long timer Supporter

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    Another possibility just occurred to me: Do you have multiple maps on the Montana? Are the ones you aren't using at the time disabled?

    ...ken...
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  12. CSpringsRider

    CSpringsRider Been here awhile

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    Thank you for the suggestion. All the map data that came with the device were enabled but most of them should not have been an issue. For example, Birds Eye Switzerland, USGS Quads in the Grand Canyon, Birdseye Select France, Birdeye Select Austria. However, the digital globe was enabled as well as the Worldwide DEM Basemap. One or both of those may have been the problem. I've disabled everything but CN North America 2018. Next time I ride, I'll keep an eye on it to see if the weird behavior has stopped. I hope this cures it; I like the Montana and prefer not to have to buy (and learn) another GPS.
  13. Grinnin

    Grinnin Forever N00b Supporter

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    I've had Montana create outlandishly bad routes because of breaks in the road data. That's just asking the Montana for the quick route to food or gas.

    I think people were suggesting that after the Montana does that, you test with Basecamp and the same maps since it's easier to add and remove points using the big screen and a mouse or trackpad.
  14. simon crewe

    simon crewe Been here awhile

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    I am sure someone will correct me, but I thought that the basemap & digital globe should be enabled with all mapsets?
  15. SteveAZ

    SteveAZ Long timer

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    I don't really think it matters from a routing perspective - I'd just leave them on since they are a lower priority map and tend to show when zoomed out (at least the basemap)

    One thing I've found is that bad things happen when there are more than one mapset with routable data, whether or not they are enabled or disabled
  16. Ken in Regina

    Ken in Regina Long timer Supporter

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    It's not absolutely necessary but, yes, that's the intent. They are designated as a "sub layer" that normally won't affect routing unless they contain data that is missing from the top "layer" - in this case, City Navigator.

    ...ken...
  17. wbbnm

    wbbnm Long timer

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    I just tried creating about 4 routes to Waypoints up to 20 miles from my house on the Montana. I saw no sign of crazy routing. It made left turns where I would have expected.

    This was with City Navigator. I was using my motorcycle profile and had these settings: Minimize distance, lock on roads: no, avoid toll roads, interstate highways, major highways, carpool lanes, ferries.

    In addition to CN, I had Topo East, Topo 24k southwest, custom maps enabled plus Basemap. I had disabled Digital GLobe, USGS quads, birdseye France, Germany, Italy Alps.
  18. SteveAZ

    SteveAZ Long timer

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    For me at least it's not like every route is all messed up but it sure does mess them up at times taking a much longer approach than is obvious and it's usually due to it avoiding left turns (not everywhere, but pretty much never mid-block) and it just plain avoids U-turns anywhere... I didn't have these issues with my prior unit (heck that one would have me do mid-block u-turns which was fine with me) so it was a stark contrast when I began using montana and it still is something I find frustrating with it
  19. Ken in Regina

    Ken in Regina Long timer Supporter

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    You can't "fix" that. It's a routing feature that lots of people want. Google was one of the first to do it. Sounds like it's spreading.

    You can play with this with Google Maps. If you pick the right places you'll be astonished at the lengths it will go through to get you on the correct side of the street for the address you give it.

    Just pick an address on your street but the opposite side of the street so it would require a U-turn to get from being parked in front of your place to being parked in front of the destination.

    If you live in a crescent Google Maps will do some truly entertaining gyrations to get you to the equivalent of a U-turn without doing one. It sounds like the Montana may be doing something similar now.

    Have you tried allowing U-turns?

    ...ken...
  20. SteveAZ

    SteveAZ Long timer

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    Of course :D

    I understand what you're saying but I wish there was a driving "timidity" setting.... like I'm very timid... or I'm not timid at all... or something in between :nod