Garmin Montana

Discussion in 'Mapping & Navigation' started by AugustFalcon, May 18, 2011.

  1. BergDonk

    BergDonk Old Enough to Know Better

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    Well I must be a driller too, one reason I'm not a fan of Apple stuff. Back in the DOS days as we started to network PCs I developed a directory and file naming protocol for my work area. Some came on board immediately, some couldn't see the point, etc etc. I still use an expanded beyond 8.3 version of it to this day. I also designed relational databases for a while, and all I see in BC is a database and I feel no need to get 'under the hood'. BC's lists are a nice convenient way for me to sort and access all my gps objects. I don't feel any need to pull them out into the computer's file structure, and it all gets backed up every week at least. I have 4 external HDs that I do rotating weekly backups, just in case.....

    I still dislike Bill's attempt to make the file structure on PCs friendlier with 'My Computer', My Documents' etc. Once 8.3 disappeared, people then started using really long file names and directory/folder names that exceeded some program limits, a hodge podge of 256 and 512 character limits for the fully resolved name.

    Here's a sample screen dump that's on my screen ATM of some of my file naming, date first in this case, and international format so they sort properly. Another struggle to get people to adapt to, but so much easier, like 24 hr time.

    upload_2020-10-23_12-49-35.png
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  2. wbbnm

    wbbnm Long timer

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    Guess I am a driller. I have my Basecamp Lists organized very much like I have the files stored on my disc. My main breakdown is by state. When that gets too cluttered, I break it further into regions.
    But I also have dedicated folders for long trips over multiple states.

    In Basecamp I have additional folders for custom maps like MVUMs so I can either overlay them on a track or not depending on which folder I pick.

    I love the Basecamp feature that allows me to see multiple rides by selecting a folder and indeed I can see every ride I have taken

    I dislike having to use a search tool to find files, but do find it useful when my logical method fails.
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  3. Ken in Regina

    Ken in Regina Long timer Supporter

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    Thanks to you and @TwoUpTourer for this part of the discussion. The light bulb finally went on for me with this post. I'm a driller and I've always viewed trips as some route files and some tracks files. Tracks that either were used for navigation on the trip or were created on the trip. I've never really viewed them in a database context.

    As you point out, that has its limitations. If I'm using Mapsource and I want track data from previous trip(s) to be used in planning for an upcoming trip, I have to create a new folder and put copies of everything in the new folder. That approach gets messy really quickly.

    With Basecamp I would only have to put the data into its database once. Then I can use it in as many lists as I want, as long as I don't modify it (which would screw it up in any other lists it appears in).

    I still don't much like the overall Basecamp interface but now I get what they're doing with the underlying structure. This is a case where someone at Garmin was actually thinking. Bravo!

    Jeez, and I thought I was anal. I have a NAS with an external drive attached that the NAS automatically syncs to every third night (not enough activity to justify any more frequently). Then I have another external drive that I sync the NAS to once or twice a month.

    My contacts, calendar and other info that's important to me all live in the cloud now. (I have pretty much everything that matters in MS OneNote these days!) I back up my cloud drives (Google and OneDrive) every few days.

    I image each of my computers every month or two, depending whether there have been many OS updates or other changes.

    I've been stretching the backups out farther and farther over the past few years. Between Google Contacts, Google Calendar, and MS OneNote I could honestly lose pretty much everything off my local computers and still live with the info on my phone reasonably well.

    My, how we have evolved in our use of technology!

    I looked at the example directory you posted and you'd be in big trouble if MS hadn't made that change. It would be impossible to do what you're doing with the old 8.3 (xxxxxxxx.yyy) filename format. Sometimes to make advancements it's necessary to break things. I was annoyed that they didn't make the change years sooner. And as far as breaking things, they warned developers of the filename changes at least a couple of years before it was implemented. What the developers choose to do with it after that is out of Microsoft's hands.

    There are a lot of things Microsoft does that annoy me, but changing the silly DOS-imposed limits on filename lengths is definitely not one of them.

    Back to the forum subject, in response to someone else's comment, I find the filename format on the Montana is just as sensible in its own context as your format using the international date format.Both make sense for what they are designed to do.

    ...ken...
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  4. SteveAZ

    SteveAZ Long timer

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    I like a hierarchical approach where the user can control how flat or deep the hierarchy goes *and* also having a very good search functionality - there's no reason the two should be mutually exclusive IMO and basecramp with all its foibles does provide that hierarchical approach to organization [not storage], however I find that it's search function is clunky at best

    And while I understand the pointer approach to the data storage is sometimes a sort of philosophical leap for some, I find it very attractive - it's efficient and helps prevent multiple instances of what should be the exact same data
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  5. Ken in Regina

    Ken in Regina Long timer Supporter

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    Yes, it makes good sense now that I've got my head around it.

    ...ken...
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  6. wbbnm

    wbbnm Long timer

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    I occasionally have a problem in Basecamp when I am displaying tracks from many Lists. I will see a track that I want to use again. I can either click on the track or let the cursor sit on it for a few seconds and can get the name of the track. But I don't know (or have forgotten) how to figure out which list that track is in.

    Are there any Basecamp tools or tricks to help with this?
  7. joefromsf

    joefromsf Dark Happens Supporter

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    Yes, click on the track to open it. The last tab is "References" and identifies all of the lists that contain the track.
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  8. BergDonk

    BergDonk Old Enough to Know Better

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    I'm not bemoaning the loss of the 8.3 file name limit. What I had trouble with with was people going crazy with long winded names, like accepting a default suggestion from MS Word for example when it was eased. IIRC we went through a period when the OS limit was 512 characters, but some applications had a 128 or 256 character limit. It was possible in one of those applications to Save As with a longer name, and then the file could never be used in that application again, unless you manually truncated the name back in a file manager. There was, as far as the OS was concerned, no difference between the file name that most consider as the name, and its path, ie the fully resolved path and file name were/are the file name. People also didn't realise that the space is also a character. Now there is a difference in W10, and the path can be 32k characters, WTH.

    Here's one of my favourite Windows accessories, and automatic install on my Win machines; https://pathcopycopy.github.io recommended.

    Anyhow, now I know I'm a driller, I can be happy with that and sleep better at night.

    Back to the Montana :thumb
  9. BergDonk

    BergDonk Old Enough to Know Better

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    Almost, just a bit more, using Pathcopy and one of the files from the screen dump I posted above, right click and Ctrl V:

    Short Path; C:\Users\USER1~1\DOCUME~1\Steve\ComDriv\202004~2.PDF
    Short name; 202004~2.PDF
    Long Path; C:\Users\User 1\Documents\Steve\ComDriv\20200405TimeSheetSD.pdf
    Long UNC Path; \\studypc2\Users\User 1\Documents\Steve\ComDriv\20200405TimeSheetSD.pdf
    and on it goes, my right click options below:

    upload_2020-10-24_7-19-16.png

    Now back to the Montana :beer
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  10. Anders-

    Anders- 690R

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    There’s plenty of room to take it up a few notches and I just can’t help butting in :lol3
    1) Don’t rely exclusively on electromagnetic storage media, 2) store backups both local and remote, 3) take steps to avoid silent data corruption, 4) practice recovery in a suitable way.
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  11. Ken in Regina

    Ken in Regina Long timer Supporter

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    Yeah, this is the one most folks ignore ... and regret the first time they need it and find out, way too late, that it doesn't work.

    I have an older system out in the shop that I use for woodworking designs ... and testing image restores. I cross my fingers and do a restore of one of the other system images. Then, I cross my fingers and toes and restore the shop PC back to its original state. So far no problem ... touch wood.

    ...ken...
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  12. SteveAZ

    SteveAZ Long timer

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    Backup - you never really know how good yours is until you need it

    Been through too many crashes and at this point I'm super solid... critical stuff is easy to get back going extremely quickly since everything is virtualized and can be brought up on a workstation if need be... The server is all RAID, back's up daily to an internal spinning drive that is also copied to an external that is swapped every few days with another that's kept at the house...

    I remember telling a customer how essential it was to keep backups off site that are no older than you can afford to lose... he says my backup drive is fire proof... I say what happens when a meth head backs a stolen truck into your business and steals everything?
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  13. wbbnm

    wbbnm Long timer

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    or just a small fire
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  14. SteveAZ

    SteveAZ Long timer

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    That's what I said to him first and that's when he said his backup drive was "fire-proof"... Theft is actually more common than fire too... I worked one place and was usually the first to show up and one day I get there, the back door had been driven into and all the computers within 20-30' of that door were gone... Theft is low where my shop is (and my server infrastructure) but it's still at the top of my computer security concern
  15. TwoUpTourer

    TwoUpTourer Long timer

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    Before I retired in 2014, our server room had evolved to a point that some component could die, or someone could walk in and snatch a few drives out of the rack and most staff would not notice anything. The levels of redundancy in a virtualized network are a marvel, making them almost unkillable. Since then, the server room is now almost empty, running down a fibre optic to a server farm in the city, yet staff still believe they have their own PC sitting in front of them.
    Smoke and mirrors!
    But, I eschew any of these smart backups now as being too slow, too broad, and use robocopy or xcopy with a slew of switches, being super fast, accurate and small, to dump minor changes out to a 1Tb drive. I do check occasionally that it does what I think it does.
  16. Ken in Regina

    Ken in Regina Long timer Supporter

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    I prefer a proper compare/sync app. I don't care if it takes a couple of minutes longer. Windows multitasks just fine so if it's going to take more than a minute or two I just do something else. Like keep up with ADVRider. :photog

    ...ken...
  17. BergDonk

    BergDonk Old Enough to Know Better

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  18. Ken in Regina

    Ken in Regina Long timer Supporter

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    I use Free Commander. It's a utility knife file manager with all the standard functions. It does two directories side by side and has both Compare and Synchronize functions. Its sync function is not quite as quick as some of the dedicated apps but it's nice to have something that does it all and does it well. https://freecommander.com/en/summary/

    I still use Windows File Manager with a few useful plugins for most day to day stuff that only requires working with one folder at a time.

    I use Macrium Reflect for creating and restoring images. One of the things I like about it is that I can mount an image file like a virtual hard drive if I need to go back and recover a file or folder that I trashed by mistake or simply want to look at an older version of a file. It's a good way to do a quick check on the integrity of an important image if I don't want to take the time to do a restore to test it. It does the standard stuff, like incremental or differential versions. https://www.macrium.com/reflectfree

    ...ken...
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  19. Anders-

    Anders- 690R

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    It’s been 34 years since Norton Commander introduced the dual pane way of file management - nice to see that parts of it still lives on to this day.

    [​IMG]
  20. Bengt Phorks

    Bengt Phorks Been here awhile

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    You can have more than one database in Basecamp. You can make one for each state if desired.
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