Gas Gas Transmission Fluid/Amount

Discussion in 'Trials' started by GTC, Feb 26, 2012.

  1. GTC

    GTC Been here awhile

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    Hello all,

    I have yet another thing to pick your brains about. I have a 2002 Gas Gas 280 Pro with an updated clutch from I think an 03 or 04, what transmission fluid do you guys run and what quantity do you put in? I know that there is a sight glass but I have heard it is notoriously bad at measuring the amount of fluid.

    I have been riding quite a bit and have noticed that the clutch as started to disengage farther through the pull as I ride it more. (Closet to the handle bar to the point where I cannot two finger the clutch.) Is this a common problem will changing the tranny fluid help?

    Finally a couple weeks ago I had the rear wheel of to change a tube (because the rim leaks a lot). Next ride out I go for the rear brake nothing happens, I pump it a few times and it starts to work better, after the ride I pumped it multiple times over a couple hour span and at the end it seemed to work without any pumping. Then today I go out and the rear brake works but not well. What could be the problem? Could I have introduced air into the system when spreading the brake pads? I looked and everything seemed to be seated properly brake pads wise. The only other variable is when removing the wheel a tiny washer dropped out (maybe less than an 1/8 of an inch). I looked on the parts diagrams for Gas Gas with no luck, so I put it in-between the swing arm and the brake mechanism, is this the proper place could this wrong placement be the reason for bad braking?

    Thanks in advanced,
    GTC
    #1
  2. 10K

    10K Trail Runner

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  3. JTT

    JTT Long timer

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    The manual calls for 550cc, although I've had best success with slightly less 450-500cc. ATF Type F is best, although you can use other ATF. Stay away from motor oils, in particular synthetics (oddly enough, as I prefer them in most everything else). Using other things besides cheap old Type F can lead to swelling of the clutch plates...that is only fixed by replacement. Change fluid frequently as it's cheap insurance

    Have a look at the little adjuster on the lever. If there is not a little slack between the adjuster and the plunger the master cylinder doesn't fully "re-cock" itself and results in symptoms like you are describing. Just back out the adjuster feeling for a tiny bit of slack.

    Not sure on the washer...if the alignment of the calliper is off, it will cause brake issues.

    As for the leaking rim, a new rim strip can often do wonders. If that fails, a little "Slime" buttered along the rim strip can also help.

    Hope that's some help. There are some great tech resources on the above linked site. Highly recommended reading.
    #3
  4. Sting32

    Sting32 Trials Evangelist

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    1, Newer Pro's have a sight glass, not sure if the 02 does. Seems to me that the 550/450 numbers sound more like the Pre - Pro (aka TXT) transmission amounts. FWIW, using slightly less oil, is A TRIALS rider's trick, which helped have less clutch dragging after you pull the clutch in... but if just joy riding trail riding, use the full amount of oil probabbly, better for lubing.

    Anywho, I fill until I have full sight glass, then start bike run clutch a few times shut off, then check, because oil has to go from right case cover into transmission, do not rush the filling process! Starting the bike helps make sure both sides have leveled off... If you rather not start the bike lay it down on left side for a few seconds, then stand back up... then full as need to get at least 1/2 way up on sight glass, WHEN THE BIKE IS PERFECTLY UPRIGHT (NOT ON KICKSTAND, and BOTH TIRES ON GROUND FIRMLY! tipping either direction or forwared or back, changes everything. I have the CC amount written down on toolbox that I keep the oil, getting old and have CRS, so I can post after I check at the shop, if someone doesnt chime in with the values you need....

    1a, I used to run atf type f or dextron3, then moved to GM's autotrack 2, then people and gasgas dealer/repair shops said quit using autotrack, I just now finally used all my supply of autotrack, now on my 1st trans full of a semi synthetic (I believe) yamaha oil. if you really want to know I will get more info on what I am using, using at advice of my best friend who does the trickier wrenching.

    2, Really have no clue on washer, sounds like the actual spacers must have been LOST? Looks like trial and error will get this back to correct position? make sure brake rotor is center of caliper when you get done, would seem to be advisable... washer might been between wheel's spacer and the caliper?

    2a. WHen you squeezed the brake pads back into calipers, there is a 80% chance that the pistons and orings, could be that they are dirty and dry, or cockeyed-STUCK, on one side or the others... there is but an O-Ring on the little pistons, now one side or multiple sides could just be stuck, meaning one piston is trying to do the braking. one thing you can try is remove tire, place something the size of the rotor between pads (mimicking the disc) and pump lever see if both sides are MOOVING EQUALLY or at all, should meet in middle, of course wont matter if middle or not, but definitely should "meet" instead of just one side pushing stick to other side... BTW, a Paint stirring stick comes to mind, thinking even non mechanic people probably have one :p
    If one side is stuck you can try to hold other side with paint stick and or better metal something, and vice grip. Be carefull those pistons arent metal, some kind of fiberglass or resin material? then make the stuck side move by pushing on brake lever, CAREFULLY by hand! go too far, piston pops out of caliper then you have much more work to do.

    2a pushing pads together shouldnt have introduced air, but I have seen weirder results, so air could be a problem I guess, so dont rule that out. Best thing to do is get a brake system syringe, push new oil from nipple up to resivior, needs new oil anyway each year! I like using dot4 for rear brakes, less expansion under heat, I think I was told?

    Good luck, Im sure that there are other possiblities.
    #4
  5. wilkinsonk

    wilkinsonk soup de grimace

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    As posted in the:

    GASGAS Pro Technical bulletin June 8th, 2010<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>

    <o:p></o:p>​

    Application: 2002~2009 GASGAS “Pro” model motorcycles.



    Transmission oil:
    <o:p></o:p>

    Recommend type: ATF DEXRON II<o:p></o:p>
    Alternatives: NOTE: We have a few customers using the type "F" automatic transmission oil with good results. Dramatically reducing, and in one known case eliminating the clutch pack swelling. <o:p></o:p>
    NOTE: GASGAS Spain recommends only Dexron III automatic transmission oil at this time.

    <o:p></o:p>

    Oil type warning:
    <o:p></o:p>


    DO NOT USE #12378508 GM auto-trac II (blue) oil
    <o:p></o:p>


    <o:p></o:p>​

    Never use synthetic oil in the transmission~clutch. The synthetic oils are “stickier” and this adhesion tendency, when applied to the areas between the clutch plates contribute to excessive clutch drag. Some brands of synthetic oil will chemically react when mixed with water, (from creeks, rain, or waterpump seal leakage). This reaction alters the pH factor of the oil. This acidic condition accelerates corrosion of steel engine parts, and loosens the bond of the clutch fiber plate material. Please do not second-guess this information. We have twelve years of experience with the Herbringer/Adige brand clutch plate materials, and we are in direct contact with the technical departments at Herbringer, Adige, and GASGAS Spain.<o:p></o:p>
    #5
  6. Sting32

    Sting32 Trials Evangelist

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    Thanks for posting that warning that I mentioned in my own post. I went ahead and used up my supply, with never having a problem that I know of, and I haven't had any trouble. Who knows maybe I'm easy maybe I'm rough on stuff... i dont know.

    While you were digging for stuff to post...
    too bad you didn't find out what the oil amount was for the pro bikes? Seems it was less than 400 cc

    Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk

    Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk

    From http://www.gasgas.com/tech.htm , on far right side, it says, "Always 5W30 (Not 10W40), 350cc for the Pro,"

    Now, sadly, most of the bulletins are old, but that is the amount of fluid I use. On "My personal" competition bike, I like that yamaha 5/30 oil we've gotten recently, if you want the clutch to "grab" quicker, which I do NOT like, myself, use Dextron or even Automatic Transmission fluid, type f. Yes it is fine for competition USE, not the over the woods and through the hills enduro riding I imagine. ALso note, the oil lubs the main crank bearings, so anyone from Stoodley to Raga himself will tell you, change that sh*t often... like every 6 or 8 hours of riding time? I think it was. that usually works out for me to be about 10 hours "ish", I'd ride my practice weekends, then the meet, change, then again for another month practice then trials meet, change. If I practice a lot, I do change before the meet. so do your own schedules, if you dont like how I do it.

    Yes, only this past January, did I only just quit using the Autotrack 2 (the blue stuff). I used it fo rmore than 5 years now.
    FWIW, when water is in there, from waterpump leak for example, it was SOOO obvious, and noticable (as it would foam into bright white color) almost neon and either I would notice dad's or he'd notice mine... anyway, I am saying IMHO it would alert you to change immediately, and find source of water infestation.

    Now, I will not and can not state it was FINE or ignore those who have posted the warnings, I have to be "reasonable" enough to think that the warning is right, at least for several people to have had some problem, even though I have NOT seen or felt any of the ill effects, that we know of.

    I felt, that it was more likely that the "source" of production clutches might have changed, do you recall the oil O-ring mistake of 2003? anyway, on this clutch thing, I felt well maybe they blamed the oil after changing the parts out and it didnt happen again? At ANY RATE, I really really really liked the way the clutch felt with the blue auto track 2 in it... like it had many times "wider" feel to it... From Barely ever slo slighthly able to feel it engaging the transmission to a long range of highly slipping to barely slipping, upto and including to fully engaged...

    Then new 5/30 oil I have from Yamaha, has about 80% of that feeling, it works fine once I got used to it, in one day... and I was only "thinking" it might be semi synthetic, but it damn well might not be, Ill post when I know for sure (have the freaking bottle in my hand)...
    #6
  7. wilkinsonk

    wilkinsonk soup de grimace

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    Sorry I didn't change up the type face when I posted the information from the technical bulletin. I thought I had, but then it ended up coming out just as it had been pasted, which looks like I'm YELLING. In any case, hope it was useful. The transmission oil question seems to come up fairly often. Often enough that I wonder if there would be any value in having a moderator set up a FAQ section of this sub-forum where information such as this could get stickied.

    I'm just now moving over from ATF type F to DEXRON III (MERCON) as try as I might I could not find type F in Saudi Arabia. 5w30 on the other hand is easy to find. The type F was very catchy or in other words had a lot of bite. I'm hoping that the DEXRON III will have a little smoother engagement.

    I was having a hard time remembering where I had seen the recommended amount for filling the trans, and for some reason had recalled 400cc instead of the amount recommended in the owner's manual. Thanks for pointing back at the tech page as it was somehow easy to overlook that tidbit of info.

    - Ken
    #7
  8. Sting32

    Sting32 Trials Evangelist

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    LOL, the 5/30 as I stated, seems to make the clutch less "grabby" if that makes any sense... I feel there will hardly be a difference in type f and dextron, though.
    #8
  9. GTC

    GTC Been here awhile

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    Hello again,

    I got some dexron III to try in transmisssion. I am going to bleed the brakes to eliminate that possibility, I think I am going to lube the pins the brake pads slide on. What grease should I use for the lube?

    Thanks again,
    Goerge
    #9
  10. mung

    mung Long timer

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    I would not "lube" brake pins considering all the dirt that will stick to them.I would consider polishing them to get most of the effect without having to clean them so often.
    #10