Genuine Hooligan 170i Official thread!

Discussion in 'Battle Scooters' started by longhaul747, Apr 17, 2014.

  1. quasigentrified

    quasigentrified Bikeslut

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2013
    Oddometer:
    1,237
    Location:
    Bothell, WA
    e-bikes aren't for you, obvs. but for urban commuters like me, who like the performance, weight, and lack of gasoline, they're potentially a great option. plus all that torque makes 'em a hoot at city speeds.
    MJSfoto1956 likes this.
  2. longhaul747

    longhaul747 Long timer

    Joined:
    May 17, 2013
    Oddometer:
    1,979
    Location:
    Bothell, WA
    Oh that is really sad and kind of depressing. Its a move that may haunt them in the long run. A lot of Vespa/Genuine owners north of the county line are now or will be saying WTF?

    A big hole now exist in the North End and I will certainly not be taking my bike for service at the next closest location and currently any Vespa/Piaggio and Genuine is now off the list. For those brands the next closest dealers are borderline clown operations from reading some online reviews.

    I will probably give it about 6 to 8 months to see if anyone picks up Vespa/Piaggio and Genuine in the area. If not then I will get rid of it next opportunity. For me that is usually not that long. Luckily in the meantime the Genuine Hooligan looks pretty easy to work on and being new it should not need much. If it breaks down it has Road Side Assistance for the 2 year factory warranty. So at Genuine's expense it will be towed to downtown location for warranty work (cringe :puke1 )and then I guess I would have to take a bus down there to fetch it. Talk about a major PITA though!
  3. Chillis

    Chillis Long timer Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2005
    Oddometer:
    11,087
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    If the tech at Scootabout is still Jeremy, he does good work and I would trust him with my bike. It has been a few years since I was up there. Before they picked up Genuine.
  4. quasigentrified

    quasigentrified Bikeslut

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2013
    Oddometer:
    1,237
    Location:
    Bothell, WA
    i only go to ride motorsports on the north end, now. the other dealers haven't impressed me.

    both the general manager and the service manager seemed really bummed about it. they'll continue to service piaggio and genuine scoots, though.
  5. jasonblum

    jasonblum n00b

    Joined:
    May 21, 2015
    Oddometer:
    2
    Location:
    Washington, D.C.
    Hoping longhaul747 or Rajah or someone can help. Turned 45 and mitigated midlife crisis with purchase of a Hooligan. Submitted a review to

    http://www.justgottascoot.com/hooligan170i.htm#JasonBlum

    Coming up on 200 miles and have several questions:

    1. Manual says first service at 200 - Genuine and dealer say 500. Which is it?
    2. No oil filter?! Is that a thing? Never heard of an engine without a filter before. Is that safe?
    3. So much debate out there over which grade oils to use, synthetic versus ?, etc. Hoping someone can just give me links to Amazon.com or wherever and tell me what to buy :)
    4. Would really like to learn to change both oils myself, but am embarrassed to say, I looked under the bike and can't even identify the oil drain plug.
    5. If I change oils on my own now, and take it in for first 500 service, does that void the warranty?
    As I said, I'm completely new to this stuff and not particularly handy. But I'm trying to learn. Appreciate any guidance.


    Oh and I've seen a couple snarky suggestions to just read the manual - the manual is pretty useless - it even says to change the filter at 200 miles (what filter?!)
  6. TrimSlim

    TrimSlim Where's the chile?

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2014
    Oddometer:
    131
    Location:
    Minnesnowta...
    Congratulations on what looks to be a great scooter. I am not a Hooligan owner so cannot directly help you out, but would suggest heading over to the Modern Buddy Forum. The Hooligan does have multiple owner threads going if you use the search option on the site. Good luck and keep us posted!
  7. Dabears

    Dabears Long Timer

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2007
    Oddometer:
    1,491
    Location:
    Atlanta
    Congrats on your Hooligan! Just FYI, it is common for small scooters to not have oil filters. They typically have a small cup shaped screen that can be cleaned out. Would guess this is true on yours. My SYM is that way too. Nothing to worry about. Oil change intervals are usually shorter to compensate (SYM has an indicator that notes oil change due to 1000km (621 miles) but since it only takes 1 quart of oil and 10 minutes to do it's really nothing...

    Best of luck with your new scooter.

    http://bamarides.com/ride/scooters/genuine-hooligan/
  8. longhaul747

    longhaul747 Long timer

    Joined:
    May 17, 2013
    Oddometer:
    1,979
    Location:
    Bothell, WA
    Forget the manual its pretty useless. Especially when it comes to maintenance items.

    As for changing oil at 200 miles vs 500 miles it may not really make a lot of difference. I did mine at 200 miles and the oil was very clean and had very little metallic sheen in the oil. My opinion when changing at 200 miles was I could have easily waited until 500 or 600 miles. On the other hand it does not hurt to change it early just for the warm and fuzzy feeling.

    Your assumptions are correct and the Hooligan does not have an oil filter. It has a metallic strainer located where the drain plug is located. This is actually fairly common on a lot of smaller motors and in my opinion its no harm no fowl and one less thing to worry about. As a precaution though I recommend changing the oil every 1,000 miles at least for the first 5,000 miles or so. If the oil strainer is clean and you are not getting any metallic sheen in the oil then you can probably go a little longer but I would not push it far. Engines are expensive and oil is cheap especially since it holds 1 quart or so and its not difficult to do.

    Oil is one of those topics that can go on forever. The reality is if its brown and slippery its probably okay. No oil is the biggest enemy. That said its good practice to check the oil fairly frequently. The Genuine scoots are not known oil burners but it does happen on occasion. Not a lot of reserve oil capacity so its wise to check it every so often. As for oil I recommend conventional oil for the first 1,000 miles then synthetic thereafter. I personally use Suzuki OEM 10W-40 oil because its a lot cheaper then any other OEM oil and its supposedly made by Shell. So its a good oil or as good as any so they say. Any motorcycle specific 10W-40 will work just fine. Once broken in I switch to a quality synthetic. Amsoil makes a really nice synthetic scooter oil and Motul does as well. Its only 1 quart so its alright to splurge. Except for some very rare situations 10W-40 is all you need. I suppose if you live in a very hot climate and ride in traffic 20W-50 may be a better choice but make sure you get it out of the engine when it cools off in the winter.

    It may be a bit intimidating at first but the Hooligan is one of the easiest scooters to service. Look for a round drain plug on the very bottom of the engine I believe on the right side facing forward. It may be 17mm or 19mm but I can't remember. I suggest a nice 6 point socket since that drain plug is aluminum. Also make sure your socket is fully seated so it does not round off the drain plug. It may be a little tight at first since the engine is assembled dry and those drain plugs tend to fuse to the case when heat cycled. Inside that drain plug is a spring and a metal screen. Wash these items off and let dry for a bit. Expect some bits of metal and silicone type material the first time you change the oil. Once the oil is drained out reinstall the drain plug, spring and the metal screen the same way they came out. Now its time to add oil. Place the scooter on the center stand and level ground. Get a nice long and skinny funnel that will work and add oil until it reaches just a hair below the full mark. It probably take slightly less then a quart but you must check it. Once you reach the proper level seal the fill plug and start the motor. Let it idle for a half minute or so then shut off. Let it sit for a few minutes and then check your level again. Since the Hooligan does not have a filter you probably don't need to add more oil but its smart to double check it. Once done periodically inspect for leaks. If its leaking its likely the drain plug needs another 8th of a turn. BTW, don't He-Man that drain plug as its not necessary. Just tight enough to seat the rubber seal is all that is needed.

    As for voiding the warranty Genuine would like you to believe that first service should be done by the dealer. However this violates the magnuson moss warranty act so likely not enforceable. Just keep the receipt for your oil and make note of when and what mileage you changed the oil.

    Another fairly important thing to service is the final drive. Especially in the first 500 miles or so. The drain plug is located in the transmission case back by the rear wheel. On the very bottom is a 12mm bolt then up by the left side rear shock is a white plastic fill plug. Its really easy to change and your final drive will love you for it. Just open that 12mm bolt and loosen the fill plug. Let all the final drive oil come out then replace with a gear oil of your choice. Genuine recommends 75W-140 which personally feels a bit thick especially in the winter but its what I used. Replace with the same amount that came out. Also its important to replace that 8mm crush washer on that 12mm drain plug or it will dribble oil. Like the engine oil you don't need to go He-Man on that drain plug. What I usually do is go minimum on the tightness and if it dribbles a bit I get down and snug it up a bit more and more until it stops dripping. Usually after a couple times reaching down there to snug it up it stops dripping.

    I hope this helps. Its a really easy bike to service and once you do it once it will become 2nd nature. Really its better to do it yourself since you know it got done right (or done period). I am really disliking dealers less and less. For example I took my Burgman 200 in yesterday for its 600 mile service which calls for a valve inspection. I dropped it off the day before so the engine would be stone cold for the valve inspection. First they quoted me an obscene amount of money for the job. Then they called me 4 hours later saying its done. I asked how they did the valves and they said it had cooled off in time to get it done. I said it takes time to access the valves but they said it was actually pretty quick on that bike. I was like "Okay" but I have a sneaking suspicion they did not physically check the valves I paid them to do.
  9. jasonblum

    jasonblum n00b

    Joined:
    May 21, 2015
    Oddometer:
    2
    Location:
    Washington, D.C.
    @longhaul747, really appreciate the detailed response - especially the clarification on the absence of an oil filter. Relieved to hear this is no big deal.

    Three dumb follow up questions:


    1. You and a few other folks recommend "conventional" oil in the beginning - but I can't find any oils on, say, amazon.com, identified as "conventional". ...Is it any oil not explicitly labelled "synthetic"?
    2. You say "Any motorcycle specific 10W-40 will work just fine." The manual actually calls for "SAE15W40". A quick search on Amazon says these are all "Heavy Duty Diesel engine oil." I agree that doesn't sound very "motorcycle specific".
    3. For gear oil, you say "Genuine recommends 75W-140". What they actually recommend (from the manual, which you note is worthless, but pasting here anyway), is "SAE 140". Is that synonymous with "75W-140"?
    Sorry in advance - like I said: dumb questions. But here's a screenshot from the manual and I was just hoping someone could give me links to precisely what to buy. This and this, perhaps?


    [​IMG]
  10. redhandmoto

    redhandmoto Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2008
    Oddometer:
    873
    "Conventional" here is not an official term: it just means non-synthetic; regular ol' out-of-the-ground refined-from-crude oil. Sometimes referred to as "dino", as in "dinosaur", a nod to its origin.

    "Are you running Dino?"

    "Oh, I ran dino during the break-in, then switched to synth."


    People on scooter forums can get, uh, partisan about their oil choices. Like longhaul sez, however, if it's brown and slippery, it'll work fine.
  11. longhaul747

    longhaul747 Long timer

    Joined:
    May 17, 2013
    Oddometer:
    1,979
    Location:
    Bothell, WA
    Basically like redhandmoto said conventional oil just means non synthetic oil. Ironically you probably won't see non synthetic oil labeled as such. However you will certainly notice that synthetic oil is labeled as so since this is a big marketing thing. Also price is almost always considerably higher on synthetic oil. Often almost double and even higher for the fancy brands.

    The manual for the Genuine scoots is a loose translation of the Taiwanese manuals sold in the home market there. A completely different market with a different set of specs. You would have to look pretty hard to find a 15W-40 motorcycle specific oil here in the states. Like you already found out the only oils meeting that spec are the Heavy Duty Diesel verities. Now its about to get really confusing for you. Believe it or not these oils are actually very similar to motorcycle oils and you can safely use them in your scooter. A lot of people do with wonderful results and the Shell Rotella is actually JASO MA rated for motorcycle use. Also these Heavy Duty Diesel oils tend to be by far the most affordable oils to use in a motorcycle. Like any hobby motorcycle specific oils tend to be a bit of a racket and come in at a small premium.

    Back to the weight of the oil in question 15W-40 is an older spec multi viscosity oil back when the polymers used were narrower. Both 10W-40 and 15W-40 oils are both 40 weight oils when the engine is hot. The difference is when its cold out. A 10W-40 oil will flow a bit quicker when cold then a 15W-40 oil and a 5W-40 will flow even quicker still. Since start up lubrication is such a critical issue usually the smaller the first number in the spec the better it is for the engine within reason. I personally would not go below a 5W-40 for scientific reasons (lengthy polymers are not as durable) but modern oil is really good and again if its brown and slippery with the proper amount it would probably work. A few out there use 0W-40 oils in scooters without issue but I never tried it myself.

    As for gear oil again the spec listed in the Hooligan manual is really out dated. Probably translated from a manual from the 70's. An SAE 140 oil is a straight weight oil. This spec has long been retired and as a result you would have to look pretty hard to find a straight weight 140 gear oil. Even if you did I have my doubts it would even work out unless you lived in Phoenix during the summer since it would be very thick. I had some straight weight 90 gear oil around once and it was thick as molasses. I doubt straight 140 could even be squeezed out of the bottle. The newer spec is the multi viscosity verity which work the same as the multi viscosity motor oils. They are still a 140 weight oil when hot but are a 75W oil when its cold out so they flow much better when cold protecting better.

    Also regarding gear oil just about any brand and type will do. The spec on gear oil is pretty straight forward and its all pretty much the same regardless of brand. I personally use Valvoline Syn Power 75W-140 gear oil in my Hooligan and its available at most auto parts stores. Mobil 1 is also a good oil. Feel free to go synthetic right away on the gear oil as it does not matter here.
    MJSfoto1956 likes this.
  12. Dabears

    Dabears Long Timer

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2007
    Oddometer:
    1,491
    Location:
    Atlanta
    Just as an additional reference. Www.modernbuddy.com is dedicated to genuine products. Your Hooligan has the same engine as the Buddy 170i so the are likely tons of posts about basic service items that will help if you get stuck. The Buddy's/Hooligans are awesome scooters.
  13. scooterjo

    scooterjo n00b

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2015
    Oddometer:
    1
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Anyone else notice this? I have had my Hooligan for several months, and commonly drive it 55mph for 20 miles or more. It does just fine under 70 degrees ambient, but the warmer it gets the less I can drive before this sputtering starts. If I slow down, it goes away, but if I keep it up, the orange light comes on, max RPM goes down 20% (5-6k full throttle) and the idle RPM goes up (2k at stop). I let it cool down and everything is fine. I have tried "no ethanol" gas, resetting the EMS, checking the oil. Nothing alters it. I am starting to wonder if its a hardwired setting to prevent overheating. I hate to take it into the shop for 2 weeks just to hear that, but, maybe something is wrong and I should. It would be great to know if anyone else has noticed this. thanks!


    worse today, heat at 85 degrees, started malfunctioning at 6 miles, and now the idle changed to "dead". I had to reset the EMS to start it. will take it to the shop and report back

    Dealer says Genuine says its a safety feature to keep the engine from overheating, it has a couple of stages, mild, with an initial small decrease in RPM, and a more severe restriction to 50% power. let it cool off, restart it, and it will be fine. nothing to fix.

    I really enjoy the machine in every other way - will have to weigh to keep it or trade up to something liquid cooled.

    more to come

    89 degrees today, it had the overheat at 45mph after 20 minutes, I think its overheating too much, will drop off at the shop for the full work up. if nothing is wrong, I guess I am looking for a new scoot. maybe honda PCX 150 or the fly 150... I really liked my fly 50.

    7/2 - update - 3 weeks in the shop, the whole thing torn down to the engine, no sign of a problem, still overheats all the time and makes a very odd upper pitch grind noise.
    so long Hooligan, It was a lot of fun while it lasted.

    Hello new ride, Vespa GTS 300 sport. Zoom Zoom. (liquid cooled speed)
  14. bravada

    bravada Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011
    Oddometer:
    271
    Since this is named the official thread....... And it has gone cold...... But they still have Hoolie's....

    Sow what is the current word?
  15. longhaul747

    longhaul747 Long timer

    Joined:
    May 17, 2013
    Oddometer:
    1,979
    Location:
    Bothell, WA
    Not much new to report....still got the Hooligan and it has been as reliable as a Swiss watch!

    I decided to do a valve inspection at 1200 miles and found them in spec. Also changed the oil over to synthetic. Here soon I will dump the 75W-140 gear oil and replace with 75W-90. I noticed over the winter it felt like the rear wheel was hydraulically dragging a bit for the first 5 or 6 miles or so. I don't notice this on a hot day during the summer. Its likely mostly in my head but I can tell its straining a bit during the winter. Cold motor oil might have something to do with it as well.

    Not sure how much longer I will have the Hooligan. I lost my job at the beginning of June and despite the media the job market ain't that great. Yeah a lot of jobs out there if you don't mind working at the Panda Express. Nothing is wrong with the Hooligan but it is outclassed even by other scooters in my fleet. I really don't want to part with anything but wife is forcing it on me if she has to pay the bills. This has all happened before but got a new job before I had to get rid of anything. My wife is being generous by allowing me to have whatever bikes will fit in the garage. This is about 12 bikes give or take. However she wants to sell some stuff off and get rid of the storage unit to save money. Over the past few years I have stored a few bikes in there.
  16. Buster Grumpy

    Buster Grumpy Sucker for "great deals"

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2008
    Oddometer:
    312
    Location:
    TN
    sorry to hear, good luck with job search!
  17. DaBinChe

    DaBinChe Long timer

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2007
    Oddometer:
    2,514
    Location:
    Santa Cruz Mtns.
    Storage units are one of America's biggest scams...paying all this money to store junk that has no value. If it needs to be in a storage unit, best to sell it before it looses more value.

    Get rid of some bikes you got too many! this coming from a guy that has too many bikes too, not as much as you currently but still....in a few more years once the kids are older I'll get rid of their dirt bikes and I'll be down to 3, 1scoot, 1 goat carver and 1 torque fiend.
  18. Duck Dodgers

    Duck Dodgers Scared shiftless ! Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2005
    Oddometer:
    867
    Location:
    37.12° N, 120.8° W
    Unless you own stock in them. I had a co worker who has had a unit for 15 years. That's close to 15G's in rent. And they still won't sell me the dust covered Red Honda 350-4.
  19. longhaul747

    longhaul747 Long timer

    Joined:
    May 17, 2013
    Oddometer:
    1,979
    Location:
    Bothell, WA
    Unfortunately when you live in condo they are a necessary evil. Actually I am getting a pretty good deal on mine. Its a 12'x14' and my rate is like half of what other units that size go for in the area. I have been there a while so maybe that helps? Still I fear at some point my rent will climb aggressively following the housing market. If that happens I will be out for sure!

    So far the job search has been going well. I have had 3 interviews so far but in 1 case they canceled and did not call back. The 2nd interview went well but because of my back issues it was not likely I could do the job. The 3rd interview I got went really well and passed the phone interview plus the 1st in person interview. Up next is the 3rd and last interview. Every company is different I guess but in my experience unless something goes horribly wrong you will breeze through that 3rd interview.

    New job is something I have not done before but luckily have some related experience so that should help. Pay is mediocre but advancement opportunity is good. Also its a highly rated company with a good culture and a pretty good pay raise schedule. Its almost a given that over a period of time you will make more money. A lot of long time employees there. At this point anything is better then nothing. Because my job loss was a hostile layoff my former employer is fighting my unemployment. Initially my unemployment was denied but now that lawyers are involved hopefully that turns it around. Its a mess though!

    Hopefully I land a new job soon and I can just move on. Luckily I am well prepared and my wife makes just enough to cover all expenses but its tight. Even a nice long motorcycle ride to blow off some stress causes stress when you stop at a gas station. Last week my wife and I did 2 up on the PCX150 just so we would only spend $4 in gas instead of $18 filling up the ST1300. Its that tight right now!
  20. DaBinChe

    DaBinChe Long timer

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2007
    Oddometer:
    2,514
    Location:
    Santa Cruz Mtns.
    All the more reason to get rid of some bikes, get it down to a handful.....think you need to do a force choice matrix since you feel attached to most if not all of them.