Gettin' Dirty with the Wans: 8400 miles - UTBDR, KLIM rally, Canada, WABDR, OBDR +

Discussion in 'Ride Reports - Epic Rides' started by LittleWan, Aug 15, 2012.

  1. MTrider16

    MTrider16 Ridin' in MT

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    The rubber changes things with the design. With CJ cones you could torque the bolt to a higher value which may reduce the chance of something coming loose. It will be interesting to see if the metal cones would collapse with higher torque.

    I don't have a quick answer for you, it may take some experimenting to find the problem and correct it. Obviously 12.9 grade will allow higher torque values.

    In general though a bolt should be designed so that it is only tensioned and will maintain that clamping force on the joint. They shouldn't experience bending or shear, leading to fatique if the clamping force is maintained.

    One more thing, a hardened washer can spread out the load so the head or nut do not recess into the joint material.

    David
  2. dmaxmike

    dmaxmike former quadtard.

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    http://www.f911.com/

    used to use these on dune buggies and Baja quads. you used to be able to order them in any overall length and thread length.

    you ever try flex bars? take some of the shock out of your arms for extreme 2 up bomb runs and maybe not transfer as much force to the triples?
  3. BigWan

    BigWan The Cripple Maker

    Joined:
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    I have an update for those who are interested. Someone (not me) took it upon themselves to contact BRP and fill them in on what's been happening regarding bolts breaking.
    When Jim Rios, the president of BRP, heard that we Osos have all been bending and breaking the bolts supplied with their triple clamp, he jumped into action.
    He called me right away to get more information and talk about possible causes and solutions to the problem. I was very impressed.:thumb It never occurred to me to contact BRP and bother them with this. I should've done that early on.

    When I snapped the 8.8 bolts provided with the triple kit, I thought it was because the bolts weren't strong enough. However, when I snapped the 10.9 bolts I realized bolt strength or quality wasn't the issue.

    MTrider16's post was very helpful and insightful.
    We decided that the real problem is with the rubber bushings in the joint and the orientation of the bolt.

    Jim rushed out some parts for me, he had some ideas to fix this once and for all.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    In this photo you can see a bolt that was starting to break when it was removed. Notice how it was bending at the end of the threads. That is not the strongest part of the bolt.

    [​IMG]



    The bolt on the right is the bent one in its original position. Jim had the idea to flip the bolt over (like the new bolt on the left), that way the bolt shank will hit the joint instead of the top of the threads. Seems like it will be much stronger.

    [​IMG]


    Here's a pic of the new metal bushings.

    [​IMG]


    I installed everything the way Jim suggested and there were some clearance issues.

    [​IMG]


    Jim knew it was going to be close. That's why they (BRP) instruct people to install the bolts in the opposite direction.

    Bolt length as supplied.

    [​IMG]



    Bolt length after shortening the second time.

    [​IMG]


    After shaving off 2mm I had clearance from the frame. An easier way to solve this clearance issue would've been to install a 2mm washer between the bar mount and the top bushing. Hindsight is always 20/20. :D

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    All back together.

    [​IMG]


    Ready for testing. :clap I sure hope this puts an end to the snapped bolts. Having this happen twice and not crashing was really lucky, I'm not so keen on trying my luck with a third time. :lol3

    [​IMG]

    Thanks to Jim Rios and BRP for really standing behind their product.

    Let the testing commence.
    gregoblv likes this.
  4. MTrider16

    MTrider16 Ridin' in MT

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    Well, the bent bolt supports my theory about the bolts being loaded in bending. I like the design from the my viewpoint from my easy chair. Hopefully this works well. Keep them tight, if the joints creep, crush, or fret the bolts will break again. If you find fretting or crush you need to increase the bearing area.

    Good Luck :clap

    I would think that the standard set up might work, but the tall bars with the risers, damper, and the hard riding this bike gets all work against the original diameter bolts. In other words, don't put apehangers on your bike Matt. ;-)

    David
  5. hanksmybuddy

    hanksmybuddy Been here awhile

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    Gotta respect those who work on their own shit. I don't....but I respect those that do! This dude has my utmost respect! :rofl

    [​IMG]
  6. FatTirePlease

    FatTirePlease Still rollin'

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    Grants Pass , OR
    :eek1 :eek1:eek1That dude is probably no longer with us!!![​IMG]
  7. TwilightZone

    TwilightZone Long timer Supporter

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    >"Ready for testing. :clap I sure hope this puts an end to the snapped bolts."

    Interesting... flexible bushings... along with a very hard bolt.
    Seems like the two systems are working against each other.

    Wonder if a more er... 'flexible' bolt would work.

    For example: Cut 1 end of the bolt into a spherical shape, machine a seat in the triple clamp.
    This would allow it to flex along with the rubber. Could probably use a specially cut washer to
    do it too rather than machining the triple clamp or bar mount. Similar to 'stay' bolts
    used in steam boiler manufacture.

    http://www.sdrm.org/faqs/boilers/page45.html


    Either that or find a more flexible alloy for the bolt.
    In the old days, the boiler manufacturers specified iron bolts...
    'free from steel'.

    Here's a sample of flexible 'stay bolt'.

    [​IMG]
  8. DARKRYDER

    DARKRYDER NoNoob

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    Thanks for posting this info Matt. I'm doing a 2 week trip in September and want to address this issue before that ride. I spoke with Mike at BRP today and they shortened the bushings and bolts slightly to eliminate the clearance issue. Ordered a set of the above and should have them in the next few weeks. The bolts should be torqued to 26 foot pounds, no loctite required with the nylon nuts. Will be good piece-of-mind knowing these bolts won't snap in BFE somewhere in Arizona or Utah.
  9. DARKRYDER

    DARKRYDER NoNoob

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    Received the new Scotts triple bolts and bushings from BRP today. Hopefully, they never snap out in the badlandse...we will see.

    [​IMG]
  10. crushing

    crushing Adventurer

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    SF Bay Area
    Which bolts are these? I just bent mine and need a replacement! Thanks in advance.

    Radek's secret stash
    [​IMG]
  11. LittleWan

    LittleWan You can do it!

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    up on the pegs, in CA



    Hello crushing.
    Those bolts are grade 10.9, but they don't fix the problem. They still bend/break.
    (also, Radek found you have to buy them in bulk quantities, which makes them a pain in the ass to purchase)

    If you go back a page, in post #924, you will see that BigWan posted the true answer to bent bolts:



    You should try contacting Jim Rios at BRP (tell him you saw this post on ADVrider.com).

    Link to BRP's website.
    Chances are, they have worked out a better solution.
    Good luck!

    LW

  12. crushing

    crushing Adventurer

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    Thanks, LW, for pointing me to the post. Just ordered up a retrofit kit with BRP!
  13. LittleWan

    LittleWan You can do it!

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    Oh. my. god.

    "Smilies, pictures and other links in current threads may not transfer."
    "Inmates can edit old threads to restore the links and
    smilies."


    Our Wan ride reports will never be the same. :cry
    We're talking about hundreds and hundreds of smilies and linkies. Lost forever.
    I just hope the pictures transfer over. I usually have 30-50 photos per ride report post.
    I hope the videos will work, too. Or will those embed codes be lost? We have over 200 riding videos embedded in RRs.



    Oh, you guys. This is so sad! Even if I went back and tried to fix everything (which I don't think I could face), it would take months.
    *Sigh*


    Progress. :baldy



    gregoblv likes this.
  14. live2ridetahoe

    live2ridetahoe BSN, RN, CEN, TCRN, MICN Supporter

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    Oh man!!

    This is the first I am hearing of this. Your subscribtion is at the top of my queue. I'm looking at the header of ADVrider now and it might as well say "It's the end of the world as we know it...EH?"

    Your RR are epic and inspirational. I don't think that anyone would expect you to go back and edit your links.

    Let's head into this new sunrise together. You and Matt have done amazing trips with a great crew. You have entertained and inspired countless. Your sense of humor and wit have not been wasted...

    Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more...


    Tahoe
  15. Skyclad

    Skyclad Original Bastard

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    I guess that just means the Oso Locos will have to head out and do another trip. Then we can have a new RR from WanCo. :clap
  16. dustyrider

    dustyrider dirt is good for you

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    No one can expect that you would go back and recreate your posts. :cry I'm just grateful that I got to read them. And when I think of the Mobius Trip, metaljockey, and many others, a sad time. I go back a reread many posts. I mean I used to go back a reread favorite posts. Chin up, LittleWan, we look forward to your future writing (and pics, and videos).:clap
  17. pyrate

    pyrate Walking the plank

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    Time to go riding and write some new ones!!!!!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  18. LittleWan

    LittleWan You can do it!

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    up on the pegs, in CA
    Thanks, guys :wave


    We're doing plenty of riding! However, neither Wan of us can imagine doing another RR.
    I think spending weeks in front of the computer for ADV is a thing of the past.


    That being said...I suppose anything is possible...:dunno



    Fingers crossed that the new ADV will be nothing like Friendface...
    :freaky
  19. muskieken

    muskieken Been here awhile

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    Jun 2, 2010
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    314
    Location:
    Buffalo NY
    Well I've enjoyed you trip reports. Just want to thank you for some advice I got reading one of your reports. See i was and am a total noob to off road riding.
    but hey I've been riding a bicycle for 40 years. so anyway i bought a duelsport in my 40's
    riding in the woods.
    your advice was
    pick a line and commit :lol3
    works great 95 percent of the time,
    the other 5 percent I just run out of talent so to speak,
  20. larryboy

    larryboy Stable genius.

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