got GPSMAP 276 (can i sell the ZUMO CityNav NT and nuMaps lifetime DVD's)?

Discussion in 'Mapping & Navigation' started by hotwheels22, Dec 25, 2017.

  1. hotwheels22

    hotwheels22 motorradRP

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    short version:

    i have a zumo 550 that i just started working with which came with CD ROMS of City Navigator NT and nuMaps Lifetime. i just scored a 496 at a yard sale that is the aviation version of the 276 and it seems to be operable and just needs good batteries.

    should i KEEP the City Navigator NT and/or nuMaps Lifetime and just sell the Zumo?

    i mean, i'm good with software but i can't tell how the licensing with Garmin works and really i am not even really sure if the datasets and permissions are tied to my computer or if they are tied to the actual device or to the ownership of the DVD's or what exactly is going on.

    i /will call Garmin but a heads up on this would be really helpful.

    long version:

    1. i have a post here printed out by @BlueLghtning which i am trying to read and understand but for some dumb reason i can't find the thread it was located in.

    2. i am starting to work in Basecamp on the Mac and also have Express, MapManager and MapInstall on the computer.

    3. i went through the process of registering the zumo with garmin and updating the maps. i am /guessing/ i updated the maps on my /computer/ and then transferred /some/ of it to the zumo 550 because it can't take the whole dataset but to be honest all this confuses me. is the computer showing the most current update of the maps on my laptop and the zumo 550 just showing the type of dataset that is loaded and not showing how current it is?

    4. doesn't the new 496 seem like it has less detail than the map that is showing on my laptop in Basecamp? is there a way to update it with the newer dataset?

    5. is there a way to have LIFETIME UPDATES tied to the 496? right now it seems like it is tied to the zumo 550?!

    6. is there a way to know which update and which map is on the 496?

    7. should i somehow see the device in Basecamp (or another software) so that basecamp reflects what is on the device? do i need to load something TO the device?

    any help would be really appreciated.

    THANKS
    #1
  2. hotwheels22

    hotwheels22 motorradRP

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    DVD's
    ZUMO screenshot
    Basecamp 1
    Basecamp pulldown 1 IMG_8061.JPG 2 IMG_6872.JPG 3 IMG_0474.JPG 4 Screen Shot 2017-12-25 at 4.53.04 PM.png
    #2
  3. hotwheels22

    hotwheels22 motorradRP

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    5 IMG_2194.JPG 496 screenshot
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  4. BlueLghtning

    BlueLghtning Riding is my passion

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    Hey Hotwheels. I didn't quite follow how the Zumo550 came into the picture? Was this something you already owned and had the NT maps for and bought the lifetime maps update? If the Zumo is already using the lifetime maps (meaning it's registered to that device), then you can't move it. It's basically a one time use and from that point forward it's always linked to that device and that device always gets the updates.

    Now I'm not familiar with the 496, although I think @NorthernTraveler might have had some of those. It's probably closer to the 478 with some internal memory. Unlike the newer Zumos, the way you work with the map sets on the 478 is different. I don't believe basecamp can read the maps off the GPS's like the 496, so that means you actually need the maps installed on your PC and then using mapsource, you install the regions you need. It's better to probably use mapsource to install those.

    To see what maps are on the 496, you should be able to go to the map screen, select map info and see the installed maps. Or use mapsource to pull off the maps that are installed and see what it shows. Now depending on how much memory the 496 has, you could possibly purchase a set of NT Maps and using mapsource, install certain regions to it. I don't know that the 496 could even get life time maps. I think some people were able to with the 478, but it was a hit and miss as the maps became so large and the GPS couldn't even begin to hold all of them.
    #4
  5. hotwheels22

    hotwheels22 motorradRP

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    hey man. thanks. i am printing out that post where you answered another poster on some questions. not sure what thread it came from.

    so, i have to study some of this stuff and test it and it may be slow but -

    the zumo i had and was planning on using. the DVD's came with the unit. i called garmin and went through some kind of process where i set up an account (can LOGIN to garmin via BASECAMP) and got help /updating/ the zumo to the 2018 version. this appears to be what is on the zumo.

    on the 496 i am not even sure what is on it. i don't see any area on the interface that will let me see anything on the MAPS. i mean, there is a lot of infomration on this device but when i /see/ the map on the device i am on the "Weather" icon. there is no "Map" icon which is sort of weird. again there are a lot of settings in this thing so i could root around a bit. on the zumo it was very easy to find what map version i was on.

    let me know if i am missing something. i am really pretty detail oriented and technical but this garmin stuff i find super confusing...

    THANKS
    #5
  6. NorthernTraveler

    NorthernTraveler Long time Adventurer

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    This is off the top of my head so it might not be exact, but it'll be close...
    Turn on the 496.
    Once it's booted, Press and Hold the Menu key until you get to the main menu (there is a line of tabs down the left side)
    Select the Setup Tab
    Scroll right to the Maps option
    Scroll down on the page to Advanced
    Select it
    It should give you a list of maps installed, if they are checked they'll display, if they are not checked they won't display.

    You can have multiple maps loaded, the max is limited by two things -
    1 - memory size
    2 - number of map segments. In Mapsource if you look at the bottom of the Maps Tabs you will see both the size and numbers of the maps you have selected to load to the unit.

    You'll need to have a Garmin Data card for the 496, you can get up to 512mb from Garmin, and 2gb from the Russians.
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  7. hotwheels22

    hotwheels22 motorradRP

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    thanks a /lot/.

    so i attach an image of the info. it was Menu > Map Information. for some dumb reason i never would have gotten this without help.

    so the data card is 512 MB and the format sure is funky. by russians do you mean symantexnoe some other manufacturer? i’d probably buy bigger data cards if i could.

    from the thread i read i /think/ the hard drive in the unit is big enough to hold the maps? or is there a way to know what is in the hard drive and what on the media?

    also, do i register this unit with garmin?

    i see there is a software update that i can execute from a downloadable exe but i have to boot into windows to do this.

    any idea whether i need to keep the two disks i got with the zumo?!

    lastly, i am on mac so i guess i get into basecamp and root around to see if i can find any data about the unit? i mean, i assume the unit will play nice with basecamp and other mac software...?

    what else should i do?

    THANKS

    jon
    #7
  8. hotwheels22

    hotwheels22 motorradRP

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    images

    Attached Files:

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  9. abruzzi

    abruzzi Long timer

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    A couple of things:

    - the map license is for the device, so you can't transfer the map license from the Zumo to the 496. You might as well transfer them with the zumo to whoever buys it from you. The only reason you could use the disk is if the version licensed for the 496 is the same as the version on your disk.
    - from you last photos, clearly the device is licensed for CNNTv8. Is that internal without a memory card installed? The 276 has no internal memory, so you need to install the maps to the PC and install to a memory card. If you register the GPS with Garmin you should see what maps have been licensed with it and you can update them if you want.
    - Garmin never made larger than a 512mb card, but there is a seller on ebay that makes custom cards up to 2gb. They're not cheap though.
    - In theory they work on Mac, but newer macs have USB3 ports and are incompatible with the 276 (and I'm guessing the 496 as well), so don't be surprised if it doesn't see it. I've heard that you can run it through a USB2 hub and it works, but the two USB2 hubs I've tried don't work.
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  10. hotwheels22

    hotwheels22 motorradRP

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    thanks abruzzi, all. clearly i need the help.

    so, starting from back to front -

    1. i will try the device on my mac pro. not sure if it is usb 2.0 or 3.0.
    2. i also have a very old windows machine now that is running xp but no internet. i guess i could download some software (?!) and “sneaker net” it to the windows machine via usb stick?
    3. i run windows 7 on the laptop and using the laptop is most convenient but i guess this win’t help with the usb incompatibility?
    3. what is the name for this kind of data card?
    4. i pulled the card and see the same maps. this must mean it is on the internal HD?!
    5. /which/ disk would i want to keep? the numaps lifetime upgrade? also, what has to be the same? i need to see the same “CNNTv8” on the zumo somehow? also, why would i wants ro keep the disks? so i can get lifetime upgrades?
    6. i SHOULD register with garmin (on a computer that will let the computer see the device?)? and what do i get by registering with garmin? i find out if i have lifetime upgrades or i find out if i can upgrade from v8?
    7. why does the map on my laptop have so much more color and detail than what i see on the 496 (or the zumo for that matter)? i mean is there more detail in the dataset on the computer or is there just a dumbed down display on the portable units?

    THANK YOU
    #10
  11. hotwheels22

    hotwheels22 motorradRP

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    maps shown with data card out of the unit: 3DFF8229-81F6-4D18-B4CA-08BCD5DD5F83.jpeg
    #11
  12. JR356

    JR356 Long timer

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    With NT version 8 those maps are at least 10 yrs old,you should be able to go most places,if you go to areas with lots of new road construction it may temporarily be confused until you get back to known roads in its database.

    JR356
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  13. abruzzi

    abruzzi Long timer

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    My info comes from having just bought a used 276c and having dealt with some of the issues. I'll answer what I can:

    1. I tried my Mac Pro (MacPro1,1 from 2007). If I booted up in 10.6.8 it worked, but if I booted up in 10.11 it didn't (the 10.11 was a hacked version since the first MacPro doesn't support higher than 10.6.8)

    2. I ended up doing everything on an XP laptop, but Garmin has made it hard as they want certain steps to be done online and you might need to put your XP machine online.

    3. The Windows 7 laptop is probably fine. The issue is specifically with Macs with USB3.

    3. Garmin Data Card

    4. yup. The 276c doesn't have internal storage so all you see if you pull the data card is the basemap.

    5. Like I said, I doubt the maps will work on the 496. Since about 2004 or so most Garmin Map products were tied to device, so to use the City Navigator disk from your Zumo on the 496 you need to pay full price for a new copy of City Navigator, at which point the disk you have is useless and out of date. I would assume that all disks and maps you have for the Zumo go with the Zumo to the new owner because they won't do the 496 any good.

    (Ok, this gets into the weeds of how Garmins work and how I work. Old Garmins either came without maps that you had to purchase, or they came with maps on a disk that you installed to your PC and from your PC to your devices. Many new Garmins have maps built in and don't ship with a disk of the maps for installation on your PC. The drawback to this is while the GPS has a full routable mapset built in, if you run Basecamp to build a route you can't see the maps that are on you GPS. Garmin's workaround is that you plug in the GPS and Basecamp displays the maps from the GPS on the computer. I've found the performance of that is horrible, so I prefer to have a copy of the maps loaded on the hard drive when building routes. For this to work well, you need to have the same maps on your hard drive as you have on your devices. I don't know the best way to make that happen, but if you're the sort that builds your routes on the devices, or you do more with tracks than routes, that may not be necessary.)

    6. I had to register my 276C with Garmin in order to get the unlock codes for the maps. Since apparently the 496 has built in maps, you probably don't need to do it for that reason. However, I suspect that if you want to buy map updates for it, you will need to register.

    7. Are you looking at the same map at the same zoom level and the same detail level? I've never used a Zumo but the 276c (and presumably the 496 as well) has a number of levels of detail that you can tell it to display.
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  14. hotwheels22

    hotwheels22 motorradRP

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    My info comes from having just bought a used 276c and having dealt with some of the issues. I'll answer what I can:

    1. I tried my Mac Pro (MacPro1,1 from 2007). If I booted up in 10.6.8 it worked, but if I booted up in 10.11 it didn't (the 10.11 was a hacked version since the first MacPro doesn't support higher than 10.6.8)
    > OK. i need to troubleshoot this issue anyway. usb 3.0 isn’t backward compatible to 2.0? wtf are they thinking.

    2. I ended up doing everything on an XP laptop, but Garmin has made it hard as they want certain steps to be done online and you might need to put your XP machine online.
    > oof, might have to buy a $150 laptop for this. i can’t put the XP desktop online as i need to work with it. too risky virus wise i think.

    3. The Windows 7 laptop is probably fine. The issue is specifically with Macs with USB3.
    > my bad it is win 7 via boot camp on the mac air. just so i can work in quickbooks or whatever. so it would use the same 3.0 usb ports. that said i have th same setup on the desktop mac pro and it probably has 2.0 ports. in which case i could work in win 7 on the mac pro with usb 2.0 ports if i HAD to. may be the way to go to keep from having to juggle variables all the time?! just get in win 7 on the mac pro plug in the 496 and get registered and start updating and syncing...?

    3. Garmin Data Card
    >/thanks/

    4. yup. The 276c doesn't have internal storage so all you see if you pull the data card is the basemap.
    > OK i am seeing the SAME thing with the card in and with the card out. i mean, the two images posted are the same i think. would be cool if i had a “sled” i could plug the garmin card into to get it to USB like i can with SD cards...

    5. Like I said, I doubt the maps will work on the 496. Since about 2004 or so most Garmin Map products were tied to device, so to use the City Navigator disk from your Zumo on the 496 you need to pay full price for a new copy of City Navigator, at which point the disk you have is useless and out of date. I would assume that all disks and maps you have for the Zumo go with the Zumo to the new owner because they won't do the 496 any good.
    > THANKS. so i sell the zumo with the disks and the zumo gets to keep the lifetime upgrades and the 496 is stuck buying per purchase updates?!

    6. I had to register my 276C with Garmin in order to get the unlock codes for the maps. Since apparently the 496 has built in maps, you probably don't need to do it for that reason. However, I suspect that if you want to buy map updates for it, you will need to register.
    > OK. ideally i could keep the lifetime nuMaps upgrades registration number for the zumo and use it on the 496. i guess i will call garmin on this after trying to get the device hooked up first and working on it a little...

    7. Are you looking at the same map at the same zoom level and the same detail level? I've never used a Zumo but the 276c (and presumably the 496 as well) has a number of levels of detail that you can tell it to display.
    >i’ll check. the pic of the Basecamp map has a LOT more detail than the zumo or the 496. groovy colors and all sorts of stuff.

    image of basecamp on mac air and then map on 496:

    577B404D-8C2E-4FBF-84B1-7F97ABD0C1D0.jpeg

    499D7FB5-E533-4AA5-8CFA-8A4858C5DA36.jpeg
    #14
  15. BlueLghtning

    BlueLghtning Riding is my passion

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    hotwheels, have you actually used the lifetime maps update with the zumo? IF so then that card is no longer good. If you haven't used it, it's possible you might be able to use it with the 496, but you would still have to buy the latest City Navigator first, then you would apply the card to it to continue to get updates. If the Zumo has been getting updates, which I kind of thought since it said 2018.2 on the maps, then it's probably been used already.

    As for the map detail, you are zoomed in a lot more on the 496. Now keep in mind the 496 might have different settings for map data. With the map screen up, go into options and find detail and select "most". The computer maps always look a lot better than the GPS maps, but also I think an updated version of City Nav will look better too in the 496. As mentioned, that map set is at least 10 years old.
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  16. hotwheels22

    hotwheels22 motorradRP

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    ok. i will see what garmin says on the lifetime maps.in the meantime this is the screen i get when i plug back in the garmin data card.

    Attached Files:

    #16
  17. hotwheels22

    hotwheels22 motorradRP

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    OK. so, a little late to call garmin today. can i just see if i have my ducks in a row for a call to them tomorrow?

    looks like i have two issues; 1. seeing if i can get a map update and transfer lifetime maps to the 496. 2. seeing if i can get Garmin Express to recognize the device. 3. other questions i should ask?

    1. i have /registered/ the 476 on the garmin page and it shows the v8 maps. i also see the zumo which shows the most current map and shows that it has lifetime upgrades. i will call tomorrow and i guess basically ask if they can please transfer the lifetime upgrades to the 476? and if i have to buy something to get this done i assume it is worth it?

    2. also, right now i am on the mac pro running high sierra. under system preferences it definitely says that i have USB 2.0. however - garmin express is not allowing me to add the device or letting me see it. if i plug in the USB to the computer i see "USB connected" flash in what appears to be a regular fashion on the screen of the device. but it does not appear to show up as a "Device" under the Finder Pane.

    any ideas on this second one? any other issues to resolve? i guess i need to ask them about the compatibility with USB 3.0 to use the device with my laptop which is the only thing i would have with me on the road...

    THANK YOU
    #17
  18. NorthernTraveler

    NorthernTraveler Long time Adventurer

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    Garmin did make an external device that plugs into a USB port that allows you to load maps onto a Garmin data card.
    However, they never updated the driver support beyond Windows Vista.
    Don't know about Mac's.

    On some Garmin GPS's you can use the external device to load tracks, routes and waypoints onto the card to be loaded into the GPS when you plug it into the GPS. This works on the fish finder / chart plotter Garmin GPSMAP 498 that I use. The biggest drawback with that unit for me is that map overlays don't display properly. You can search them fine, just not display the tracks/routes on the screen.
    #18
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  19. hotwheels22

    hotwheels22 motorradRP

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    thanks man. i don’t even know what map overlays are at this point. looking forward to learning.

    that said, do you have any qualms about my selling the zumo and using this?!

    i mean, i /intend/ to learn how to use these things and the buttons i like a lot. the iphone gps on my last trip didn’t work out so well ; )


    so i’m thinking this unit may be the keeper and i sell the zumo...
    #19
  20. NorthernTraveler

    NorthernTraveler Long time Adventurer

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    If it was me...
    I'd sell the Zumo complete with the CN and updates - it's tied together at this point.
    I'd get a copy of Road & Rec (it's old, but good for all the back road stuff)
    I'd download some of the free maps - look up OSM maps for Garmin.
    Load a mix of the R&R and OSM maps for the area you'll be riding in.
    Build some overlays - you can have LOTS of them and they take very little space. Include them in the above load.
    You're probably gonna want a Windows machine to load stuff - I don't know Mac so can't help you with that.

    Overlays - there is a thread around here on using a Nuvi for adventure riding, it'll fill you in on overlays.

    Just as a teaser, here are a few overlays....

    The complete CDR - https://www.dropbox.com/s/ps9fkiimyrc1gpo/CDR.zip?dl=0
    Every publicly owned campground over 5 sites in the entire US - https://www.dropbox.com/s/ccsh5ux0w1nypxx/US Camp 2014.zip?dl=0
    Countdowns Great Western Trail - https://www.dropbox.com/s/5vqupaigsabq1ec/GWT.zip?dl=0
    All the Hot Springs in the US - https://www.dropbox.com/s/e9dlk3makw0hera/Hot Springs.zip?dl=0
    My complete Northern Route - like the TAT, from Washington state coast to central PA - https://www.dropbox.com/s/b5dmbswdatwjuqr/NR20151009.zip?dl=0

    Each of those zip files contains the source .gdb file, and .img file (the overlay itself) and directories to load the overlays into both Basecamp and Mapsource.
    On newer Garmin GPS's you just copy the .img file into the \Garmin directory of the GPS.
    On older units, you install the overlay into Mapsource or Basecamp, and select the overlay as one of the maps to be loaded into the GPS.
    #20
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