Got new "street" wheels for the 950

Discussion in 'Dakar champion (950/990)' started by kirkmoon, Mar 10, 2004.

  1. gorgopodaros

    gorgopodaros Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2003
    Oddometer:
    286
    Location:
    on the pegs
    KirkMoon thank you for sharing the wisdom with us; great job too. :thumb

    Did you, by any chance, asked the guys that made your wheels' combo about fitting rims for tubeless tires? (something like the GS or Capo)?
    I think it would be safer for long distance tours...

    Thanx
    #61
  2. Mack

    Mack Gone, but never forgotten. RIP, Mack...

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Oddometer:
    3,797
    Location:
    Austin, Texas USA Native Oregonian
    I know the 950's rear tire bead can be a bitch to break, otherwise I don't understand the desire to have a tubless tire. I have way more faith in a tube/tire then a tubeless tire. And riding a GS out in the boonies without having a tube on hand, is to me a really scary thought. I've seen tubeless tires with the sidewalls shreded that still did fine once a tube was installed, when there was no other "safe way" to repair the tire. Just my .02.

    Edit: I guess if your going to use it as a pure streetbike, and ride at high speed, such as in Europe, it might make sense. From what I'm told the GS rims are far more complex, and difficult to spoke, then the KTM/Behr/DID's, but if your not going to be banging them up, and needing to replace the rims?
    #62
  3. Greg Minor

    Greg Minor The Trespasser

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2003
    Oddometer:
    2,322
    Location:
    Escondido Ca
    This is what I use to help the tubless/tube /flat problem https://www.ride-on.com/main.htm
    #63
  4. kirkmoon

    kirkmoon Making up for lost youth

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2003
    Oddometer:
    8,912
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    I know. It sounds pretty silly doesn't it. Actually, it isn't the total power that I miss, it is the softness of the power in the low/mid rpm range that gets me. On the Tuono/Mille, when you apply throttle even down low in the rpm range, you get it...in seemingly unlimited quantities...NOW. On the 950, there is a bit of a lag (unless you open the throttle all the way) and the engine kind of "rubber bands" up to the requested power level. This is a nice, sensible way for an engine to behave, but on a hard core street animal, sensible is not the desired goal.

    I am not a good enough rider to get the most out of the 950 as it is, but that doesn't stop me from wanting even more. :evil Typical, huh?
    #64
  5. KTMax

    KTMax Ninth of the Nazgul

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2003
    Oddometer:
    1,099
    Location:
    Amsterdam, The Netherlands
    Ah yes... that I noticed too. The 03 bikes suffer more from this than 04s. There have been some mods by KTM on the slide speed of the carbs (=the cause for this). Your dealer might have modified this already but it's worth to ask him about it I think.

    My 04 bike still has this slow slide speed delay a little too. I'm planning to investicate this further on the dyno. But slide speed is something to be very careful with. Increase it and the engine will have more bite on the throttle. Go a little to far and it will be pogo-time with the power coming on and off like a light switch. Not funny and will definately make you slower on a twisty road. Let alone off road.
    #65
  6. gato88

    gato88 Adventurer

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2003
    Oddometer:
    66
    Location:
    sf,ca
    Hey your on the right track, slide mods are the answer big time!
    Its all very indivual on mods,your sommer mods etc...its what you
    started with carb and airbox,barometric pressure,ambient enviorment
    and stepped skills to performance.... get on a dyno and rock!!!!!!!!!
    #66
  7. Flanny

    Flanny Flanny-it-up!

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2003
    Oddometer:
    2,739
    Location:
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, the World, the Universe
    I think the slide speed thing is very true...

    Another place to look is the rubber mounted 17t front sprocket.

    Do you have the 16t Sprocket installed? It may actually increase the responsiveness of the 950 over and above just gearing.

    The 17t is rubber mounted, essentially doubling the rubber between it and the rear cush drive. When I put a similar sprocket on my 640 Adv. I really noticed that the sprocket needs to "wind-up" before delivering power...it definitely made introduced a lag of sorts.

    I haven't tried my 16t yet on the 950 (maybe Thu with nice weather), but I suspect that it will increase throttle response over and above just lower gearing due to the fact that it is all steel and no rubber.
    #67
  8. KTMax

    KTMax Ninth of the Nazgul

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2003
    Oddometer:
    1,099
    Location:
    Amsterdam, The Netherlands
    I don't mean to be rude Flanny but this is very funny. There is no cush- or 'rubber' drive on the stock front sprocket. It's a fully steel sprocket. The rubber on both (out)sides is only there for noise reduction. It reduces the 'clattering' (don't know the right word here) of the chain on the sprocket. That's all. When you pull the rubber off both sides you'll have an ordinairy steel sprocket just like the 16T version...

    The more direct feeling you mention is only from the lower gearing. :nod
    #68
  9. Flanny

    Flanny Flanny-it-up!

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2003
    Oddometer:
    2,739
    Location:
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, the World, the Universe

    That is actually really funny!!! :thumb What's hillarious is that I actually believed the parts guys back when I ordered the 17T for my 640...I never checked, and just assumed that it was a "cush" drive (that parts guy said it was used for non-cush drive bikes like the 625SXC)

    Now that you mention it, that would have to be some seriously strong rubber..

    Oh well, it's always good to be wrong everyon once in a while...keeps us all human. :doh
    #69
  10. KTMax

    KTMax Ninth of the Nazgul

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2003
    Oddometer:
    1,099
    Location:
    Amsterdam, The Netherlands
    Really?!?... Geez... they should fire him on the spot. :D
    #70
  11. street tracker

    street tracker High, wide, and handsome

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2004
    Oddometer:
    1,492
    Location:
    OC, CA
    Anybody here tried this stuff? looks like it may be a viable option with a sealed rim.

    I too am curious about the tube/non-tube with sealed rim question. I have tubes in the 19's on my ATK dirt-tracker, and have never had a problem with them (but then again, the tires last only a best of about 500 miles.)

    I'm wondering if part of the failure issue is from running tubes in radial tires that weren't designed for them.

    For you guys running radials (Teabagger, don't you have 207's?), what tubes do you have in there?


    Steve
    #71
  12. Stephen

    Stephen Long timer Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2002
    Oddometer:
    3,452
    Location:
    Austin, Texas, USA
    Rear tube, KLR, flat tire, likely heat-related, likely cheap-ass tube-related. Glad I had a spare tube. The Ride-on was a mess inside the tire. On the plus side, it cleans up easily, and makes for good bead lube. And keeps your hands smelling daisy-fresh and feeling oh-so soft.

    I don't use any of that stuff anymore.

    Many mfgrs--IIRC Conti and Metz--say about their TL tires, "use tube with tube-type rim". Can't really call that "not designed for". I ran a tube in a Mich T66, and the bizarre pattern molded inside the tire chafed the tube fiercely. Nice. :splat Of course, I was using the tube because said bizarre pattern prevented patches from sticking. :huh I began to get the idea that Mich wanted me to buy another tire, so I did. A Metz. :lol3
    #72
  13. Greg Minor

    Greg Minor The Trespasser

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2003
    Oddometer:
    2,322
    Location:
    Escondido Ca
    I also use michilen heavy duty tubes these tubes weigh a lot more than a regular tube
    #73
  14. cruso

    cruso Adventurer

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2002
    Oddometer:
    21
    Location:
    Regensburg, Germany
  15. teabagger

    teabagger Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2004
    Oddometer:
    279
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Earlier I had said that I was dragging my pegs; I should've said that I was grinding the outside of my Alpinestars. In fact, I stop the lean angle when the little toes dive into the fissures, potholes, or tree root shoulders that illustrate the perverse comparison between "civilized" (G7) nations, and the tried & true efficacy of the Appian Way.

    BTW, I installed the HARD RADAR setup....very cool, but as your confidence swells (riding FORWARD rather than the mirrors,) you become acutely aware of the increasingly 3rd world jeopardy that confronts you..in addition to the cell phone/Prozac/Nick Nolte threats....The good news is that I'm less likely to die, as a pillhead crosses left across my bow (because I can see him, rather than driving my mirrors,)....bad news is that overall road awareness has deteriortated to the point where you have to drive as if every other vehicle is an opponent, who may kill you.
    Teabagger
    #75
  16. Greg Minor

    Greg Minor The Trespasser

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2003
    Oddometer:
    2,322
    Location:
    Escondido Ca
    I too ride with the hard system and I just got a ticket last week I was going past a mall and had gotten a zillion x band warnings and when I crested the hill and got a real XA warning I was to slow to react due to my dulled senses from the earlier false warnings when I'm out on the open road I always clamp the breaks first then look to see what or where the boogey is I suggest tuning the xband out
    #76
  17. worm~hole1

    worm~hole1 I'm mentally mortarded.

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Oddometer:
    120
    Location:
    SoCal
    What are effects of an 18" rear/19" front combo?...and what am I missing here by even contemplating the question? I like the idea of the 17/19 950 for a better 'street oriented' bike....gonna test ride a 950 today up in the twisties and sweepers....looking for something more 'grown-up' and comfortable to replace my Corbin-seated ZX-12R for long-distance sport-touring. I'm taking a friend's VStrom 1000 to the KTM dealer to do a back-to-back comparo...should be a wondrful test....that fuel injected VStrom is a hoot of a scoot...$4000 less than a 950 and with (probably) less suspension and handling, but could one spend less than $4000 to get the VStrom's suspension and handling dialed in as well, or perhaps better than the 950?....curious minds want to know.....


    ....also....how are the hedlights on the 950 at night?....thanks!
    #77
  18. kirkmoon

    kirkmoon Making up for lost youth

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2003
    Oddometer:
    8,912
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    The main reason to go with a 17/19 combo rather than a 18/19 combo has to do with the change in height of the front and rear of the bike. Putting a 19 up front without a change in the rear will lower the front end by around 1", which will have a fairly dramatic effect on the handling characteristics of the bike. This can be compensated for by changing the height of the forks and rear shock, but this makes the changes irreversible and prevents you from going back and forth from one set of wheels to another. By installing the 17/19 combo, the front end drops by less than 1/2", which has less effect on handling. The other reason to do this is that there are very few tires that fit the 18" rear rim. Going to 17" opens up the entire world of normal street tires for use. The selection of street tires for the 19" front is still fairly limited, but the Tourance and Anakee are great tires and both are available in that size.

    Never been on a V Strom and can't comment. Jean-Luc just sold one to get a KTM 950 and I think he is very happy. YMMV.

    The headlight is OK but not great.
    #78
  19. worm~hole1

    worm~hole1 I'm mentally mortarded.

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Oddometer:
    120
    Location:
    SoCal
    Thanks...I almost figured as much...as always, great info to know from those in the know....looks like the 17/19 combo is the way to go for now, especially if the on-road/off-road ratio is 75/25...but first I need to find a way to get that gorgeous Black Beauty into my arsenal soon before they're all gone (and plastic-paint the free hardbags BLACK while I'm at it :evil ...that S model's blue/orange paint scheme was almost a consideration if it weren't for that goofy Go!!!!!!! graphic....such an adolescent graphic for the street imho....could always have those panels repainted I guess....
    #79
  20. Jean-Luc

    Jean-Luc Throttle committed

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2001
    Oddometer:
    2,248
    Location:
    San Francisco, USA
    Actually I kept my V-Strom since I'm sharing it with a friend (350 days for me / 15 for him :evil) and I continue using it for commuting. I don't know what you want to do with the bike worm~hole1 but they are very different! Both have wonderful engines but I have a slight preference for the torquy Strom. On the pavement I think I am faster with the Strom too (vs the stock wheels on the 950)... Off-road, it's night and day! Although I've done some challenging trails with the Strom it can even be compared with the excellent frame/suspension/position of the 950.

    Since price seems important to you, in addition to the price tag difference, servicing the Strom is also cheaper.

    Bottom line: if I had to keep only one bike it would be the 950 without any doubts because it fits perfectly my riding style.
    #80