GPX TSE250R 2T Enduro

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by Navin, Dec 3, 2017.

  1. malignity

    malignity Wonton

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    #81
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  2. Navin

    Navin Long timer

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    I stand by that! Hahaha! KDXs are everywhere but this is a bit different! A KDX 220 engine in it woulda been a good choice too, if it had the e-starter and mechanical oil injection.
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  3. malignity

    malignity Wonton

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    From what I gather, the DT230 is a pretty solid engine. It's got a lot more low end torque than a KDX220 but doesn't rev as hard. This makes me think it's going to be on par with a Beta XTrainer. According to NZ specs, should everything remain the same, we're looking at about 49 ponies this thing puts out if the initial info is correct. If that's the case, that's outstanding. It's also one of the quietest production dual sports made from what I can see, but I imagine a lot of that has to do with the snorkel and exhaust. It sounds like the biggest mod to the bike is removing the snorkel, opening the exhaust dropping the clip a position on the needle, and going a bigger main. All of those and you've got a fully uncorked fairly beastly bike that's capable of revving out at 100mph according to an inmate. This is set up as a "dual sport" too. That's damn impressive.

    Given that this isn't going to be sold as a "dual sport" and is for off road competition only, things like the snorkel and a free flowing exhaust may already be done. Gary is planning on using a Mikuni, and if it's something like a flat side carb, that's only going to give her more ponies.

    This bike has potential to be a beast. As much as I wanted to get the 250f, I'm glad I waited.

    It sounds though that the engine isn't being made by Zongshen. If not them, then who? ZS has proven they're serious engine contenders, and I'm hoping that whoever makes this engine does the same.
    #83
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  4. Navin

    Navin Long timer

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    You are assuming the porting is all still intact, and DT based rather than WR which I think had more ports and more power, but still not huge power.

    So, this is DT or WR200 based, but not necessarily identical. Or it might be? IDK? I know there is potential and Eric Gorr (and other porting specialists) can make it sing.

    Funny I was expecting the 250f Zong and F.I. to be a disaster and Id transplant a 85cc or 100 in this LXR, but its not. It is super effective. Its fueling is perfect in Florida. I cant fault it, and Ive tried.

    OK, its not fast like a MX 250f. I never expected that anyway. Even the top level 250f endos arent fast.
    #84
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  5. CDN Rick

    CDN Rick Canoodia Eh?

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    An interesting bike, and I'm sure a competitive one for the market segment it will be aimed at...
    I think I'll pass on this particular offering as it just doesn't look like it will shape up to be the bike I'm desiring.

    But I'll definitely be watching the company closely in the future.
    #85
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  6. Grreatdog

    Grreatdog Long timer Supporter

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    OK, I was thinking about this. I know, probably not good. Anyway, I managed to boot up enough partially dementia addled brain cells to remember something about Chinese two strokes.

    Wasn't Shineray a big part of the deal back when KTM saved Husqvarna from BMW? IIRC, KTM didn't give a shit about what BMW/Husky was building. They really just wanted the brand.

    Shineray bought up all of the leftover intellectual rights, engines, manufacturing, etc. That is where SWM came from. If so, Shineray is currently sitting on some solid two stroke dirt bike tech and the means to build them.
    #86
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  7. Navin

    Navin Long timer

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    They could have the right side drive 259/300/360 and the barely changed 1999-2013 125/144/167 engines if the need arises. Or didn't GasGas or Sherco buy at least the new gen RedHead 250/310?
    #87
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  8. Bultaco206

    Bultaco206 Back-to-back motos suck Super Moderator Supporter

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    Some of us are old enough to remember the original SWM (*cough* :fpalm) back in the early '70s when it was all Sachs stuff.
    #88
  9. CDN Rick

    CDN Rick Canoodia Eh?

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    GasGas did buy all the old 4T Husky engine moulds, tech, and patents. They have confirmed they will not be using these for anything under the new TORROT/GasGas company..
    They do intent to build their own engines from the ground up using cutting edge tech.
    #89
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  10. Navin

    Navin Long timer

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    My big ? Is when and what will KTM be building in China with the new deal they made last month? Like Ive said, it is possible they have a hand in some of these bikes or licensing already. Looking at the table of linkages and swingarms it is impossible in photos to tell who made them.

    GasGas and others frames, swingarms. Its all basically the same stuff. But somehow, thats seen as OK.

    Hmmmmm.....

    image.jpeg
    #90
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  11. Grreatdog

    Grreatdog Long timer Supporter

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    Codger. In the early 70's I was riding the neighbor's Harley Davidson 125 dual sport and a motley assortment of rotary valve Kawasakis.
    #91
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  12. bark sampler

    bark sampler Been here awhile

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    And Rotax! I loved the Rotax SWM’s.

    That power number seems very inflated for the basis of that motor. The pipe looks double wall too based on the raised sections. All this suggests a nice trail power. I would not expect much “hit”. I don’t think this will compete with the Euro stuff for aggressive riding, but that’s probably OK for his market.
    #92
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  13. CDN Rick

    CDN Rick Canoodia Eh?

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    I don't think many people realize the influence Miki Arpa has had on modern enduro machines.

    A former KTM ISDE and World Championship rider you know he had influence on KTM design.
    He also rode for Husquvarna and Honda in the Spanish Enduro championship.

    He was head of design for the Bimota BBX 300 and the Jotagas MK 300 machines. Oddly the Bimota came out the same year as the current KTM frame design (2011) and is a near mirror copy.... Gotta wonder how that happened...... He is now the head of design and you can see the obvious influence from the 2011 Bimota and the 2015 Jotagas in the 2018 GasGas EC300.

    To say he is well known in the corporate enduro world for his design work is an understatement.

    I would add as an important note that while the GasGas and Sherco swingarm/frame designs are nearly identical to the eye with the KTM/Husky stuff, both companies have confirmed on multiple occasions that they are not in fact identical but are using components and metallurgy of completely their own design.
    #93
  14. malignity

    malignity Wonton

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    I'd expect this to be on par or just above the KDX220 or an XT 300 with 70 less cc's, (which is what it is)

    We talk that this isn't going to be an enduro racing machine but will be a fantastic trail bike, but lest we forget that the Beta XTrainer 300 entered into HELLS GATE enduro and at one point in time the KDX220 was the cat's ass of enduro.

    The 300 was developed to get rid of that massive 250 hit and make linear power. We've all shown time and time again in 2 strokes that's what we want. There's no question that linear power is what we want, which is why the 300 is the top selling 2 stroke on the planet.

    We all know that riding aggressively is much more the rider than the bike, and it's easier to ride a linear and predictable bike more aggressively than it is a demon, otherwise we'd all be demanding CR500's still. (Okay, some of you still demand those, and you're suicidal)
    #94
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  15. Grreatdog

    Grreatdog Long timer Supporter

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    One thing I will commend @Pitster on is going with a KTM style frame on the LXR rather than those stoopit Japanese aluminum perimeter frames. Those damned perimeter frames drive me out of my mind when working on one.

    Hopefully that trend continues with this smoker. Especially since KTM plastic seems to be significantly less expensive than Japanese plastic.
    #95
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  16. shinyribs

    shinyribs Thumpers for life

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    The "Euro hit" is what keeps me away from them. There's definitely a market for guys who haul ass in open country for those types of power plants, but there's another market for guys who like steep, rutted, gnarly, slippery terrain, too. When your terrain rarely has you out of second or third gear, who cares about top end?

    The current trend in modern bikes I've been able to ride just feel like I'm fighting a MX bike through the woods. I don't want that. I want an enduro motor/gearbox in my enduro bike. Bolting on flywheel weight Band-Aids and regearing only get you so far. If we're honest, I think most of us would be better off on a true enduro bike, rather than a mx platform that has good bragging rights on the brochure papers and gets relabeled as an enduro bike.
    #96
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  17. snowjob

    snowjob Thinking about bikes....

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    That is what I was thinking/hoping too. My KDX cost me ~$2k and it is plated. It is the best trail machine I have owned and I love racing it. An XT300 will cost me $7k and plating it takes some fancy footwork here in WI. That is why I was hoping the Pitster smoker would be closer in price to the ancient KDX than the new XT with its suspension limitations. $5300 is not bad, but I could justify stepping up to the Beta for that money (or a year old Beta RR for that matter). Either way, I will stick with the KDX for now and see how the Pitster engine pans out. Huge KUDOS to them for going after the market space many of us are looking at.
    #97
  18. Grreatdog

    Grreatdog Long timer Supporter

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    That is where I will end up at that pricing. That is squarely in the virgin used KTM/Husky price range and I can plate those.

    That said, it is a still a deal if you are new bike kind of guy. Probably nice for Pitster having a little markup room, too. We all need to eat.

    Plus I would like to see him carve a big chink of business for himself to force some more competition.
    #98
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  19. malignity

    malignity Wonton

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    The XT you also need to get a skid plate for and hand guards. Not major expenses, but still expenses.

    Ironically, the XT 300 was a big enough hit that Beta decided to make a XT 250 for 2018. If I had to guess, this'll be pretty close to that.

    It sounds like the XT suspension isn't the greatest and this appears to be pretty well suspended according to the people who have them. You do get the lower seat height though on the XT.

    Either way I bet it's a solid machine. Pitster has made it well known he wants to compete and he's showing that's what he intends to do. His attention to detail and the extra effort he's taking to make sure he has quality parts like Japanese bearings and Japanese carbs only shows that he means what he says.
    #99
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  20. Navin

    Navin Long timer

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    What do we want???

    More new two strokes!!!

    What will we do???

    Not buy them!!!

    :lol3

    Hey, like anything else, if you start looking at a new Ninja 400 you can buy a used ZX1100 for the same money.

    KTM sells new bikes. Honda sells 25 year old designs brand new.

    For many out there, this bike bought new makes perfect sense. I had a defective LXR gas tank, Pitster pulled one off the shelf and sent it to me. Support Im not worried about. If its built even better than the 250f that has exceeded my expectations, well thats just stupid good at the MSRP. I agree with @malignity, if you are shopping a new Xtrainer you should give this a hard look.

    Im done with $9,000-$11000 bikes at this point. At darn near half the price I can still go as fast as I dare in the woods on a Pitster.
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