Grand Canyon Loop out of Vegas

Discussion in 'GPS Tracks - West & PNW' started by Crawdaddy, Oct 9, 2009.

  1. HogWild

    HogWild Scott Whitney

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2003
    Oddometer:
    3,982
    Location:
    USA
    Yes, several stations at these locations:
    36° 56.382'N 112° 31.275'W
    36° 56.958'N 112° 31.570'W
    36° 57.303'N 112° 31.621'W

    Super difficult going down, as it's quite steep and the road basically disappears as you ride almost off a rocky nearly cliff edge. Pretty much impossible going up (heading west). Then there's a fence you have to work your way around once you get to the bottom. Look at the gnarly spot in Google Earth: 36° 33.907'N 112° 0.619'W

    There are two MUCH easier ways down 5 miles south, and one easier way down 8 miles north.
    #21
  2. Moto Vaquero

    Moto Vaquero Trail less traveled

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2008
    Oddometer:
    637
    Location:
    San Diego & Stanley, ID
    Thanks for the solid info Scott.
    I'm thinking of heading North to Jacob where it appears there is a gas station, a hot shower and some grub then North on the GWT through Escalante then working my way back down to Mesquite or St. George where the truck will be.
    Any ideas on truck storage in Mesquite or St. George for 9 or 10 days?
    #22
  3. HogWild

    HogWild Scott Whitney

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2003
    Oddometer:
    3,982
    Location:
    USA
    Yes, all that is in Jacob Lake.

    I don't have a good suggestion for long term parking. Perhaps you can ask at one of the hotels if you stay there a night? Crawdaddy probably knows the most at Mesquite and maybe St George.
    #23
  4. wbbnm

    wbbnm Long timer

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2007
    Oddometer:
    5,242
    Location:
    MN and NM
    We've done the Fredonia to Toroweap to Mesquite ride twice without a gas stop. But you can't screw around exploring and you need to have a lot of confidence in the route.

    I think it is 185 miles via the Nutter Twists and Lime Kiln Canyon. Doing Elbow Canyon and Butch's hideout is a few miles longer. Last year on my 690 I carried an extra gallon of gas.

    Two years ago we went east to west thru the Nutter Twists. There was a spot near the west end that would have been difficult going the other direction. We went up Elbow Canyon last year and it was on the difficult side.

    There is gas at Marble Canyon and also up the road at Hatch.

    Here are our tracks from last year. The side trip out to the Kanab Wash overlook was worth it, but there is a steep hill to deal with.

    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=981366

    We avoided some of the more difficult stuff Crawdaddy ran into.

    We rode the GWT from south of Jacob Lake up to 89A two years ago. Last year we rode along the west and south rim of the Kaibob Plateau. Both rides are excellent, but IMHO the west/south rim was better especially the southern part over to the North Rim Lodge. But there is some pavement outside Kanab this way.

    We took what is probably the easiest road up and down the east side of Kaibob plateau, well south of the GWT. It is still pretty difficult - steep, rocky, and goes on forever.

    I haven't done the part of the GWT north of 89A. But Smokey Mountain road between Big Water and Escalante is a fantastic classic ride.
    #24
  5. Crawdaddy

    Crawdaddy Navigate 2 Adventure

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2007
    Oddometer:
    2,302
    Location:
    Ramona, CA.
    Two gas stations in Fedonia, I seem to remember the sign above the door reading "Guns, Lotto, Beer" :lol3 :1drink

    Cain is exactly as Scott described.....looks good.....lulls you in.....then disappears......we dropped over the left side of the bluff following rock cairns for a hiking trail......it sucked on the 620 Adventure loaded with bags and laden with ~7 gallons of gas picked up near the North Rim.....riding up from the bottom is not an option.......I'd skip it.....
    #25
  6. Crawdaddy

    Crawdaddy Navigate 2 Adventure

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2007
    Oddometer:
    2,302
    Location:
    Ramona, CA.
    I generally stay/leave vehicles at the Holiday Inn Express up on the hill after staying there one night before launch. But I'm only gone a few days with my riders on CORE trips.....

    The casinos have HUGE parking lots......you might be able to work something out with them.......there's also a UHaul storage facility in town.......they may have some open space beyond their locked gate if you're concerned about security......
    #26
  7. Countdown

    Countdown Long timer

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2003
    Oddometer:
    6,933
    Location:
    Carson City/Ridgecrest
    Bill, I have a ton of tracks on the west end of the North Rim (UT SMTS on GpsX). I have Nutter Twists identified but none of the others you mentioned. Can you post a gpx with way points?

    Edited: Bill I found most of your stuff in another file. I now split the entire North Rim (from AZ, & UT SMTS) into a new separate North Rim file on GpsX. Could you look at it and give me any descriptive comments on the sections.

    Vaquero, you may want to check out this file since it has most view points and various options for the whole North Rim.
    #27
  8. Moto Vaquero

    Moto Vaquero Trail less traveled

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2008
    Oddometer:
    637
    Location:
    San Diego & Stanley, ID
    Thanks Y'all, I have tons of info, tracks and ideas to make for an excellent ride!

    PS; Crawdaddy, I just noticed your in Ramona. I'm just down the road on Rio Maria soo, howdy neighbor :wave
    #28
  9. wbbnm

    wbbnm Long timer

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2007
    Oddometer:
    5,242
    Location:
    MN and NM
    Glad you found the waypoints. I will take a look at your new tracks.
    BTW the waypoint I called Kanab Wash Overlook is actually called Kanab Creek Canyon in the 2014 GPX file.

    In the meantime I went ahead and posted the tracks from our trip in 2013. It has waypoints for some of the places I mentioned. I put it in Tracks Rockies since that is where I put the tracks for the 2014 trip.

    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1075221
    #29
  10. Countdown

    Countdown Long timer

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2003
    Oddometer:
    6,933
    Location:
    Carson City/Ridgecrest
    Got a couple more from that file. You have lots of warnings. Are they for Adv bikes only? At least one you had I don't even remember.

    Basically what is best Dual Sport route and Adv route from Mesquite to Trumball? How hard is Nutter?
    #30
  11. wbbnm

    wbbnm Long timer

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2007
    Oddometer:
    5,242
    Location:
    MN and NM
    We mostly ride 650 class machines with a couple of 500s and sometimes KTM 990s. A couple of the guys on the 990s can do anything the 500 can do. So it is much more a matter of rider skill than the bike.

    I consider myself a "B" rider because I used to enter the B class in enduros and desert races. I can't remember ever needing help getting up something on any of our trips either on the KLR or now on the KTM 690. But occasionally some of the guys do need help.

    The east part of the Nutter Twists thru Hidden Canyon is not hard, but the constant hills and turns after Hidden Canyon get to be a grind.

    The west part is less traveled and more primitive and was mostly fun to ride. But at one point there was a ~ 2 ft downhill ledge that we could just barely get by. That was two years ago and that spot could be easier or harder now. But I don't think I would try the west-east direction because I would worry it would be impassable, which would be a disaster from a gas-range standpoint. Maybe somebody has ridden it recently and will report back in.

    Going up Elbow Canyon outside of Mesquite was a handful. I think we had a few falls. I killed my engine on a long straight steep rocky uphill and had trouble getting traction to get going again.


    I think Lime Kiln was easier. But I have seen pictures of it being washed out pretty bad. I think it gets maintained and Elbow does not.

    Most people who do this go over Lime Kiln Canyon and then head northwest to pick up an easier route than the west Nutter Twists to Mt. Trumball. You can either go all the way east to the major county road or what we did last year and go down to Hidden Canyon and then east.
    #31
  12. Countdown

    Countdown Long timer

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2003
    Oddometer:
    6,933
    Location:
    Carson City/Ridgecrest
    Did major update on GpsX file

    Which way is Down ledge? Is down easier?
    #32
  13. wbbnm

    wbbnm Long timer

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2007
    Oddometer:
    5,242
    Location:
    MN and NM
    Down is east to west - the way we went. From what I remember from two years ago I don't think it would have been too hard to go up it either.

    What I would worry about is that the way around could easily have been eroded away by rain or jeep traffic in two years. You might still be able to get down but maybe have to walk the bike. But it might be very difficult to get up.

    But this is pure speculation. Maybe they went in and bull dozed the whole ledge out for all I really know.

    I don't know how popular this route is.

    There were several posts on trip reports and tracks thru there several years ago, but I don't remember seeing anything recent.

    I think this is what Crawdaddy did.

    I assume you are modifying your files in your area on GPSXchange in one of your libraries. Still need to get over there to take a look.
    #33
  14. Crawdaddy

    Crawdaddy Navigate 2 Adventure

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2007
    Oddometer:
    2,302
    Location:
    Ramona, CA.
    I'm out there 2-3 times a year.......do you have a way point or a general vicinity waypoint......I can't recall anything of significance other than the deep erosion cuts from last year's rains......but they were tamed pretty quickly by riders/RZRs in the following weeks....
    #34
  15. Countdown

    Countdown Long timer

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2003
    Oddometer:
    6,933
    Location:
    Carson City/Ridgecrest
    It is in my North Rim file on GpsXchange.com
    #35
  16. wbbnm

    wbbnm Long timer

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2007
    Oddometer:
    5,242
    Location:
    MN and NM
    thanks.

    The nefarious ledge is at

    36 32.712 N 113 46.089 W

    or

    36 32 43.17 113 46 05.15

    I can see it pretty clearly on Google Earth and it doesn't look bad, like maybe there has been some maintenance.

    (this is about .4 mi west of where I put my waypoint guess in my track)
    #36
  17. wbbnm

    wbbnm Long timer

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2007
    Oddometer:
    5,242
    Location:
    MN and NM
    I attached a waypoint where the ledge was.

    Attached Files:

    #37
  18. Countdown

    Countdown Long timer

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2003
    Oddometer:
    6,933
    Location:
    Carson City/Ridgecrest
    Now you attach way point after I converted to D, M, S and moved the old one.

    That section is the only one I do not have actual active logs.

    I would post my tracks here but the file is 6 Meg gpx. Perhaps I will filter and then post.

    Edited:

    Filtered he hell out of it.

    Attached Files:

    #38
  19. Crawdaddy

    Crawdaddy Navigate 2 Adventure

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2007
    Oddometer:
    2,302
    Location:
    Ramona, CA.
    Ok, I thought that was the area you were talking about.....there's nothing of consequence there in either direction now (IMHO). There used to be a slight step up there but it's pretty blown out now.....just typical rocky crap that you bounce up and move on past..... I traveled through there last Fall (in both directions) with multiple groups of riders as well as a group of trucks/Jeeps/RZRs/Rhinos on a separate trip......

    This is the spot....the remnants of the step you're talking about are ~20 yards in front of the Rhino in this photo......the trail narrows a bit but the step up/down is no BFD (IMHO).....I don't even bother to mark it/mention it when I head out there with folks......no need to spin'em up with anticipation needlessly......

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    #39
  20. Crawdaddy

    Crawdaddy Navigate 2 Adventure

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2007
    Oddometer:
    2,302
    Location:
    Ramona, CA.
    Jerry - Recommend you delete the eastern leg of your Track 21 after Pa's Pocket where it drops straight south off the road at the junction with Track 002. That southern/off-road section of Track 21 leads to an AWESOME view point, but it's no longer legally accessible. Access to that area has been closed off for ~5+ years with barbed wire/fencing......don't get me started on that subject.......
    #40