Ground clearance

Discussion in 'Hacks' started by twintwin, Sep 23, 2013.

  1. cleatusj

    cleatusj Dirt floor engineer

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    I can find no reason one would want to elevate the bike as the measurements need to be made from a level surface. I just place two 80 pound bags of Sackcrete on the seat while I'm making adjustments and measurements. I figure a five pound difference in weight is an amount that will change with loading.
  2. Dan Alexander

    Dan Alexander still alive and well

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    We were discussing a few posts previously about running a straight edge or lazer line down the steering head but that would entail removing the stem and forks then. If you do that what supports the bike and how do you know it's level (in riding stance which may not be 'level')

    Haven't I seen pics of guys building sub frames with the bike up off the floor?
  3. cleatusj

    cleatusj Dirt floor engineer

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    Down the steering head not through.
  4. davebig

    davebig Another Angry Hun !

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    Come on twintwin what does EZS have to say ? this is just a tradgedy not your fault.DB
  5. Bobmws

    Bobmws Curmudgeon At Large

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    Geez Dave, do I have to do all the research for you! :D
    EZS admitted they messed up, hopefully they will replace the fork for Didier.
  6. twintwin

    twintwin Been here awhile Supporter

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    Alright, you all deserve to know

    [​IMG]

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    See you in a year for the test ride report after I come back to India.
    Thanks all for your patience and support.
    Didier
  7. davebig

    davebig Another Angry Hun !

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    A Dutchman named Dave, Have a safe trip Didier.DB
  8. claude

    claude Sidecar Jockey

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    Almost had to be something like that. Simple fix as long as the brake setup and shocks mountings work out okay.
  9. twintwin

    twintwin Been here awhile Supporter

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    Already taken care of. EZS will send me a new swingarm (same length than the one I have) but with the brackets for the legs 1.5" farther from the axle, and will also relocate the brackets for the shocks. And the brake line are long enough for this 1.5''.

    As you have realized in this thread, a slight change of the leg's angle, a different position of the pivot bolt on the telelever, a different diameter of the front tire (got 6.5" of trail with the 165/80, and 3" with the 175/55), and of course the length of the swingarm and the legs, would make a huge difference in the final trail. The precise measurements of all of those 5 parameters are related to achieve the correct trail, you modify only one, and the trail changes.

    Good luck Claude with your L.L. projects, keep us updated.
  10. claude

    claude Sidecar Jockey

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    Glad it seems you all have it sorted out Didier. Keep us posted. Yes everything you mentioned comes into play with a leading link or a tele lever or conventional fork type front end. It can be a little confusing if one does not consider all the faactors. Studying the diagrams that were posted here will help if one considers all the variables that may be present as you mentioned. Also the link to the artical by Tony Faolle I posted can be interesting.
    Through this thread I did a post with the word 'fruitless' in it earlier. I was wrong in doing that. Nothing is fruitless if we learn from it and I think this thread, even though confusing at times, and maybe off track at times is a great teaching tool towards understanding what goes into designing a front end with the correct geometry.
    We all make mistakes (even EZS as great as they are) but if we can learn from our or others, mistakes and or hassles we can all benefit from it.
    So,Didier and all, please accept my apologies as it was my own statement that was 'fruitless; and not this thread as a whole.
    I would strongly encourage everyone to read the whole thread from beginning to end to get the correct picture of what has gone on here. Do not take anything within the thread as fact until the whole jest of the thread has been mulled over and absorbed.
    Sounds corney but They say the school of experience is a great institution but the tuition can be very high. If we can learn from other's experiences then we are doing a favor to ourselves. So..thanks Didier for being candid and doing a great job of describing a step by step frustrating ordeal.... it has done us all good.
    We have built numerous leading links and as you know we have three or four in house to do now.
    As a sidenote ....In reality I do prefer the center hub type system as you can dial it in without all the motorcycle type geometry involved. The double a frame suspensions coming off the sidecar chassis is also very appealing for even more positive reasons. But that is another topic I suppose.
    So many ways to go and so little time.
    Thanks again and have fun in India. Hope you have better luck keeping up with those natives on those little bikes this time.,..but be careful they dance to a different drummer and we want you to come back in one piece...lol. Wonder if you can possibly visit the Cozy factory that would be interesting to see. Lots of rumors about it as we have discussed that could be confirmed or put to rest. Keep in touch!!
  11. DirtyDR

    DirtyDR Dana Supporter

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    Thanks for the information Didier and for for hanging out with us until the end. I guess it really isn't the end until you get that front end straightened out so I look forward to seeing the conclusion to this issue when you get the new parts installed.
  12. davebig

    davebig Another Angry Hun !

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    +1 or in plainer language I agree .DB
  13. twintwin

    twintwin Been here awhile Supporter

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    Just back to the US for 2 weeks, geeezzze it is so cold here in NY, I thought spring has already started!

    A couple days ago, I got the new swing arm from EZS, perfect timing.
    As you can see, the brackets for the legs were relocated about 1.5 inches back, so the new trail should now decrease enough to have the around 2" value, necessary to ease the steering. The shock's bracket also were move back.

    I'm in the process to put back together the L.L. with the new swing arm and will keep you posted on the result.

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  14. davebig

    davebig Another Angry Hun !

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    Bienvenue à nouveau Didier frais de la météo et de la nourriture un peu ennuyeux par rapport à l'Inde et maintenant je suis en attente sur Claude.Take Care.DB
  15. sdpc2

    sdpc2 Just another Rally Rat

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    what's the latest update??? :ear
  16. davebig

    davebig Another Angry Hun !

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    He's bound to turn up shortly I can't believe he hasn't been worrying about this since he left for India.DB
  17. twintwin

    twintwin Been here awhile Supporter

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    So after wrenching a couple days, the new swing arm needed some alterations, I did a small test ride, 20 miles. Now the steering is finally easy, and the value of the new trail is indeed about 1.5".

    Now I have to address a new issue, a burned and smelly clutch. Clutch is dead, with all the weight and the rubber contact, it cannot hold any more an open throttle. So it will bee my next summer project, and I have time to figure out if I better replace it with an OEM one or a TT ceramic one. Other options available?

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  18. davebig

    davebig Another Angry Hun !

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    Didier
    That's a lovely GS rig, I'm surprise the clutch is giving up that easy, How many miles on it ? I know it's an GSA with the lower first gear and the rear tire is smaller than the 17" stock one was but you may want to switch to a lower final drive your at 31/11 but the RT's used a 32/11,I've currently got a 33/11 which equals about 63 mph at 4k rpm in 6th 175/65/15 rear tire.


    Here's one alternative, pointed out too me by the ever helpful Drone when he still talked too me,I'm about to put it into my other 1150gs along with an GSA transmission.DB
    http://www.beemerboneyard.com/2122454or.html
  19. twintwin

    twintwin Been here awhile Supporter

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    Thanks Dave for the input, the bike has 28K miles, but the clutch was already weak before I hacked it. I guess, as you advised me, I will go with the Siebenrock clutch. I will definitively not go with the TT ceramic, first too expensive, as you also have to get a new clutch housing, so the total price would be more than 2 times the Siebenrock option. And you have to take apart the bike again after a certain time to remove the spacer on the ceramic clutch. Finally, I tested the Stroker's rig a while back with a ceramic clutch, and did not like the on off feeling.

    Regarding the gearing, I'm not sure yet what I will do, I have a 33/11 and 37/11 spare FD, so I have some options in the future, first let see how the rig will pull with the new reinforced clutch (When I come back again from India, mid June).

    Any update from PA?
  20. Melrone

    Melrone Long timer

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    Twin Twin: very nice looking rig...I have almost 40k on my stock clutch,haven't had a problem yet what problems did you have?..I was lookiing at the pics and yours doesn't look much taller than mine..Is that a Claude front end? The reason I asked is just talked to Dave today and he built me some new A-arms To compinsate my Dauntless lower tree and bring my front end up and back to the stock Height.Did it really help..I know when I rode his I was very impressed..Thats why mines at Claudes getting rebuilt right..I know you did that to your front end and I want your opion....