Harley Bronx and other new variants

Discussion in 'Road Warriors' started by Snowbird, Nov 5, 2019.

  1. south

    south Long timer

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    Mark, we're actually in complete agreement with each other; we're just looking at it from two different vantages. You're looking at Harley's target demographic for a Bronx style streetfighter, and I agree with your assessment 100%. And that's exactly why, to my point, the Bronx was shelved--because Harley aren't presently going to try to sell to that demographic.

    Harley are trying to seriously change their game--the new power cruiser is like shooting a layup; the PA is a midrange jumper; scoring with the Bronx, however, is like coming right off the bench cold and immediately hitting a shot from mid-court. So, for now, Harley are just trying to put some solid points on the board and get into the flow of the game before trying to score with a shot from way out beyond the(ir) arc.
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  2. Monkeyshines

    Monkeyshines Long timer

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    I'm going to disagree in general. Your three paths scenario assumes they are mutually exclusive, they aren't. And that the majority of prospects are either pro or anti Harley, I disagree with this as well, I'd like to believe that most people just like motorcycles. I don't think the noisiest people on internet forums are the rule.
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  3. Monkeyshines

    Monkeyshines Long timer

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    Or the Bronx isn't up for production for real world reasons. Like the cooling system is overwhelmingly bulky to put it kindly and works least well on a naked bike. Most pics are blurred or shadowed out in that area, look at the left side, uggh.
    It possibly doesn't make financial sense. The PA starts at $17, the Bronx uses the same basic platform. What does the competition sell for. Where is the competition built? Etc etc. Seems a hyper price sensitive segment.
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  4. Vertical C

    Vertical C Long timer

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    I don't understand why people think that it's unfeasible for Harley to be able to engineer a bike on par with other manufacturers when they just did it for the Pan Am
  5. Tripped1

    Tripped1 Smoove, Smoove like velvet.

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    So assuming they stick with the sub-liter motor

    You are talking from the MT-09, which lists right at $9000 USD on the low end, and the Street Triple RS at right under $13,000 on the upper end. The Segment is largely the Yamaha MT-09/SCR, the Kawasaki Z900/Z900RS, the Triumph Street Triples, the 790/890 Duke, 821 Monster...maybe the Ape 660...which is ALSO cheaper than the Triumph and the BMW F900R I would add the GSX-S750, but they aren't sold in the US market at least, they are relatively common in Japan (shocker) @ just under a million yennies ($9500USDish)

    Once they pass $14,000 they start running into base S1000Rs and base Tuono's, and by $16,000 you are on the bottom of the Super Naked segment, bikes that are approaching 200hp with top-end all of the things.
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  6. Nosotros Racing

    Nosotros Racing Long timer Supporter

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    Keep think good thoughts.
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  7. Nosotros Racing

    Nosotros Racing Long timer Supporter

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    I don't think they want to sell the new bikes to their traditional customers so much as they want the noobs to be accepted by the faithful. They almost could have started another marque, like Lexus, Acura or even Star.
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  8. Oilhed

    Oilhed MarkF Supporter

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    Shoulda just bought Motus and made three versions and sold them in HD Dealers. Crusty old pirates would accept an American made pushrod V-Four.
  9. south

    south Long timer

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    I never said they're mutually exclusive. I said one market--the "in betweeners"--isn't large enough by itself to support the expense of an all new platform, and I said another market--the anti-Harley/Harley-sceptics--will take time to develop; therefore, *for the time being*, Harley's primary focus for its initial efforts with the new engine platform lies with the Harley faithful.

    If Harley release the Bronx now, and it's a sales failure--which could very well be the case, IMO, because, as I've pointed out, I agree with Oilhed and others that the Bronx is not a bike to appeal to the faithful, and, as I've also pointed out, it'd be a tall order to be an immediate success with the non-Harley crowd--that failure would potentially taint/jeopardize the entire new engine platform line and deal a crippling blow to the MoCo's ability to evolve/transform itself in the way most everyone agrees they need to.

    As for this:

    we're not in disagreement; we're actually talking about the same thing--you're just zeroing in on specifics whereas I made the same basic point in general: which is to say, it will take time to develop/be successful in the non-Harley market--for all the specific potential reasons you list, and more. Harley needs to have a bike to counter exactly the factors you state, which are also exactly the factors that contribute to the anti-Harley mindset: performance, design, and pricing immediately competitive with what other brands already have in that market sector.

    --"Harley doesn't make the type of bike I'm interested in, and if they did, it'd be overpriced and underperforming, and even if it wasn't either of those, the dealers wouldn't embrace/support it, so who wants that hassle when it comes to sales, parts, and service, and even then, etc."--

    Tackling/overcoming all of that will take time.

    Which all comes back to my point: at the present time, of the proposed new platform bikes, the Bronx would be the most difficult with which to achieve immediate sales success. Which is why Harley shelved it. Everybody here seems to want to go around and around with all this, but the fact is it's all circling the same drain: the faithful don't want it, and success with the non-Harley crowd would be challenging and will certainly take time to attain/cultivate.
  10. wpbarlow

    wpbarlow Long timer Supporter

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    Harley seems to have an Itchy & Scratchy problem

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  11. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades... Super Supporter

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    Don't tell that to Yamaha, selling the heck out of 700s as they are... :nod :deal

    Best way to sell less is to make less. Why not a 950 with un-Harley like power? Why not a 700-750 with hooligan power? Seemed to work for Yamaha, building four different models with the 700 engine, three with the 900. Hey, isn't that kind of what Harley does? Build a bunch of different models using the same engine? I think they should look to their history and also at the market they don't have and think real hard... :hmmmmm
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  12. travlr_45

    travlr_45 Long timer

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    Iv had an interest in this bike from the first day pictures of it were released. Even rode down to the local HD dealer to enquire about it. Was disappointed to hear it was on hold. Maybe next year........I kinda like the idea of the 975 displacement verses the larger 1250. Less weight and most likely a smaller wheelbase. If the HP and torque #’s are respectable it looks like it would be a hoot in the hills
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  13. Vertical C

    Vertical C Long timer

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    You can charge more for a 1200, 950 is a price point bike nowadays. That's why you would target a larger cc
  14. HapHazard

    HapHazard Be Kind - Rewind

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    An 883 Sportster is actually a couple of pounds heavier than a 1200, so I wouldn't expect a big weight difference.
    Then again, I don't expect to see the Bronchitis in any size anytime soon.
  15. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades... Super Supporter

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    And sell less. I'm betting that there are more MT/XSR/Tracer 700s running around than the 900s.

    That's like going hunting and not shooting at the bit skinnier deer 25 yards from you, holding out to shoot for the slightly bigger one that is 100 yards away. Why not do both (if the license allows it of course)?

    Plus Harley needs to get new smaller bike riders in their fold. I'm betting there are new riders that would go for a Bronx 750 or 925 both for the easier bike to ride and the lower pricing that should follow. Sell smaller then have riders move up. Plus there are riders like me, who just don't want a big bore and can save with no traction control and various ECU modes with the smaller bike.
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  16. Vertical C

    Vertical C Long timer

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    Harley has said there strategy is to make more profit per bike rather than to target sales. Thats a valid strategy not all manufacturers profit on volume
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  17. pjensen641

    pjensen641 Long timer Supporter

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    The 975 will be no lighter. This is a modular engine....they only change out the cylinders. Similar to a Sportster 883 vs 1200.
  18. KSBUTLER44

    KSBUTLER44 Been here awhile

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    But overall the bike can be lighter with different tins and other components.
  19. Vertical C

    Vertical C Long timer

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    That won't save much money if any and you need to charge less for it.

    A 150hp naked 1250 sounds on par with competitors if it can be around 200 kgs, and the only way they can do that weight and be profitable is to put it amongst the other big bike price points. Competing with a cheap mt07 is stupid
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  20. Tripped1

    Tripped1 Smoove, Smoove like velvet.

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    Yeah, that is why Triumph just gave up and went up to a clean sheet 1200 for the Speed Triple and (rumored) Tiger Explorer

    Tuono 1100s put over down 150 at the wheel, stock
    As do the the Super Duke pair
    The Streetfighters are laying down in the low 180 range
    and the S1000R is over 160.
    Triumph is claiming 177hp with 2021 Speed Triple....which should be 155-160 rear wheel.

    The only real comparison would be the Monster 1200, with right around 150hp @ 414lbs claimed curb weight.

    If they did a 1250 Bronx that is the competition, and only the KTM and Triumph aren't derived from Super bikes......of course that same competition yields a lot more price flexibility, the low end there is 16,000 for the Beemer, and this rises to over $25,000 for the Streetfighter S

    But all of these bikes are dripping with Ohins, Brembos, and fancy electronics.....and those that are shopping them are brand agnostic, most want Super Bike perfomance in an all-day package (at least I do) ... past that I don't really care what is on the tank.