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Discussion in 'Moto Bellissima: All Other Dualsports' started by Ken Hooligan, Jul 30, 2018.
Can't speak for KTM, but the Harley cast wheels are 14 pounds lighter than the spoked wheels.
Are you claiming that Harleys cast wheels are heavier than the wire wheels? Or are you claiming the cast wheels aren't as light as forged or carbon? Got any weights to share? Harley claims they add 15 or 16 lbs to the bike (that might include the knobby tires rather than Scorchers), are you saying that is an error?
In my experience, every cast wheel is lighter than OEM wire wheels. I just replaced the wire wheels on my BMW RnineT and saved 3.4 lbs per wheel with OEM cast.
I think the simpler reason why most have chosen wire wheels is that HD had produced most of the initial bikes with them, and most people aren't thinking about real pro's and cons other than "it's an Adventure bike, Adventure bikes have wire wheels".
Personally, the weight (performance hit), maintenance, cost and PITA to clean wire wheels makes them undesirable vs the maintenance free and superior road performance of the cast. 90%+ of the miles of the PA, were I to get one, would be paved. In fact, I don't really see much of a reason to have the wire wheels on the PA. If I am doing that much dirt, a KTM 890 ADV or Yamaha T7 is the better choice.
I'll take my chances with the extender. I prefer a full-length fender, but this will do for now.
She’s an inspiration to all of us and I admire her stamina and her steady plodding in the face of adversity. I watched her initial video on the first 1000 mile day on a Pan Am. Wow , she’s the real deal Adventurer ! I do however believe that her Harley Sponsor should have installed the optional auxiliary lights as she’s doing a lot of Night riding . Do y’all agree ?
If they cared about air flow, they would have raised the radiator all the way up to just below the steering head so that is wasn't blocked by the tire. A real fender that was large enough to block a tangential path from the tire OD to the radiator. This whole area of the bike sort of shows the limited design experience with liquid cooling and bikes that leave the pavement; Radiator placement, front fender design, and R/R placement.
1) Cast is not always lighter just because they are cast and you get "cast" then you get "cast". BMW wire wheels (and single sided rear which is worse) are PIG heavy by design, they like Ducati run the spokes on the rims edge requiring thick hoops.
2) Cast are far cheaper to manufacture, KTM sold the 1190 with wire in 2013-2016 then in 2017 the 1290SAS quietly was changed to Cast and the wire became a PowerParts option, no mention of weight savings.
I agree that an owner can run what you like as it's your hard earned cash, if cast makes you happy then why not however, these claims that Cast gives performance gains, on an Adventure class bike, has the same reaction from me when guys fit titanium race exhausts to these bikes to save weight, sure they will work but like cast wheels, they do not take abuse well and repair is very expensive if not possible and going offroad is what an Adventure class bike is the last I looked.
If I did 99% hard pack this class of bike would be the last bike I would buy, rather then a Sports Touring like the XR 1000.
imho and that means nothing in the larger scheme...
if they did that , it would start to look like a GS , heaven forbid.
imho : the PanAm is beginning to really look like a V1 bike. Eg : radiator destroyed in a tip over sans guards , voltage regulator at the front/bottom of the engine , battery at the front/bottom of the engine , small mudguards. When you compare the placements of the battery / regulator / radiators on say, a class leading watercooled bike like the GS , you can see thought went into those designs.
But the GS is an ugly M/F. In fact, all the BMW's are.
Or.....Maybe Milwaukee has access to the internet, wind tunnels, and places to test these bikes off-road, and perhaps they did their homework and all this bench racing fretting over their design is for naught.
Fat chance-- internet denizens have demonstrated they have an infinite capacity to fret over anything/everything.
Fretting (along with its cousin outrage) is the air that keeps much of the internet alive
Interesting, my 2005 R1200GS had cast wheels. That seems a bit earlier than 2017.
We have a winner ...
I have yet to see anyone's R/R get taken out by a rock
I have yet to see a radiator get taken out by a rock
I don't recall seeing anyone's radiator get plugged up with mud or sand
Much ado about nothing
The radiator and bash plates available from HD, add the critical protection.
Afterall a GS or 1290 Adv don't have the same protection a GSA or 1290 Adv R have... you gotta add that shit.
98hp is less than the PA,KTM and Ducati make in "rain" mode, we now in the 150-170hp class.
The claim of performance gains switching from wire to cast is what this thread is on about else we can discuss this till the cows come in, here KTM started the trend.
What does engine HP have to do with suspension action?
This thread is about the pan am.
Not about whatever 170hp class you are on.
Oh, and they might make 130hp so there is that.
He's channeling his inner Ducatista.
I was responding to "who would put cast wheels on a bike like this." There was the answer. If you want to make more of the discussion then put it to the text and not leave it in your mind.
The Multi's had cast wheels forever too, and it's got what, 160hp since 2014 or so?
Lighter wheels = better performance. More solid wheels = less deflection = better performance. That's all there is to it.
Found this cool pic of a PA with some custom paint work on the front. Kinda helps the front end out a bit I think.