Harley-Davidson Pan America Thread

Discussion in 'Moto Bellissima: All Other Dualsports' started by Ken Hooligan, Jul 30, 2018.

  1. Ron_Luning

    Ron_Luning Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    Oddometer:
    365
    Location:
    Ellicott City, MD
    HD dealers won't know how to sell it, and will present an alienating experience to non-pirates who darken the door of their stores. Ask me how I know....I used to be a Buell customer. I hope for the best for their employees since their livelihood is on the line, but HD as a company can go to hell.

    I'd bet a 2018 VStrom 1000 bought leftover today for literally half of this bike's price will out-perform it in every objective measure. Plus, you'd never have to explain to the dealer how to lube and adjust a drive chain.
    dedave, Forty-Won and Reddog* like this.
  2. Gus_1869

    Gus_1869 Adventurer

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2017
    Oddometer:
    21
    Location:
    IN
    Not all HD dealers are bad. I had a Buell and the folks at the dealership were always quite helpful.
    madrider5150 likes this.
  3. Ron_Luning

    Ron_Luning Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    Oddometer:
    365
    Location:
    Ellicott City, MD
    Agreed, but those were in the minority of HD dealers. There wasn't much money in the Buells, so maybe if the $$ is there for this bike they'll be more enthusiastic about it.
  4. canoeguy

    canoeguy Long timer

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2011
    Oddometer:
    2,362
    Location:
    SW Virginia
    Which manufacturer is selling a top of the line 1200 with all the bells and whistles in 2020 for 12-14k?
    Bubba Ho-Tep, bobw and gobux like this.
  5. canoeguy

    canoeguy Long timer

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2011
    Oddometer:
    2,362
    Location:
    SW Virginia
    Have you been in a Harley shop recently? It's not 1995. Every dealer I have spoken to has been energetic and excited about it.
  6. Ron_Luning

    Ron_Luning Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    Oddometer:
    365
    Location:
    Ellicott City, MD
    Not since 2009 when they put it in me dry by closing Buell and doing a firesale for $5k off the bike I just bought 9 months earlier. Clearly, I'm biased, but I worked with 2 different dealers back then in Southern California, and they both sucked. One guy was totally stupified when I brought the bike in (for warranty work of course) and he saw the rear tire shredded from a track day. HD dealers didn't know the sport bike market or customer. They don't know the ADV market or customer.
    Forty-Won likes this.
  7. justinope

    justinope Long timer

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2013
    Oddometer:
    1,864
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV
    None but I really can't think of any other angle for them to break into the ADV market other than price.
  8. Eatmore Mudd

    Eatmore Mudd Mischief on wheels.

    Joined:
    May 28, 2012
    Oddometer:
    3,442
    Location:
    Wet side of WA.
    V Twin torque.
    OHC horsepower
    Not a sport bike ( niche ) not a cruiser ( niche )
    Alternative to Asian and European bikes
    Dealership network second to none..

    Just my .02 fwiw
    kitsapjoe, boatpuller, bobw and 5 others like this.
  9. madrider5150

    madrider5150 Riding somewhere

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2013
    Oddometer:
    1,178
    Location:
    PNW
    I dont understand all the complaining about HD dealerships. Nearly every jap bike dealership I have been to has been quite subpar- non knowledgable sales people, service and shop mediocre at best. However this would never deter me from buying what I wanted if they had it unless of course they tried to hose me during the sale- which happened at a Suzuki dealer trying to buy a new V strom... I do still ride suzuki though
    Last HD dealer I was at, they loved my off road sportster and one of them was a dirt biker
  10. Hamamelis

    Hamamelis Inmate

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2016
    Oddometer:
    318
    Location:
    RVA, Beast Coast
    My main hopes for this bike are

    a) that it's kind of at an even point between the stone simple reliability of the V-Strom DL1000 or Super Tenere XTZ1200, and the aggressive but quirky fury of the Multistrada or 1290ADVR

    and b) that it has a long enough run to get any major engineering kinks ironed out within a couple years, and build a steady aftermarket - chances are, I won't be able to afford one for about 4 years, while I'm paying off my current car and bike as well as building general savings
    madrider5150 and Eatmore Mudd like this.
  11. rauchman

    rauchman Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2005
    Oddometer:
    875
    Location:
    Northeast, NJ
    I'm curious how you know that your VStrom was literally half of the PA's price, when no price has yet been announced, and how you know the VStrom will out perform the PA in every objective measure when no one has ridden one yet? Do you have inside info from HD?

    Sounds like you had a bad experience owning the Buell. Unfortunate. I was sorely tempted in getting an XB12XT at one point. Terrific bikes, with so-so build quality. Having said that, I kind of doubt HD is going to not have the dealers up to snuff on these new bikes since, unlike Buells, these bikes will have HD badges on them.
  12. rauchman

    rauchman Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2005
    Oddometer:
    875
    Location:
    Northeast, NJ
    Would a quality motorcycle offering, with a massive dealer network in the US not count?
    Norsman, c_m_shooter and Eatmore Mudd like this.
  13. Ron_Luning

    Ron_Luning Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    Oddometer:
    365
    Location:
    Ellicott City, MD
    I don't have a VStrom. If you look at the market they are selling brand new 1 year leftover in the $9k range. HD is going to price this bike in line with the Euro competitors so look at BMW, KTM, and Triumph comparables. Half price for the VStrom may not be exact, but damn close.

    Of course I don't have "insider info," and your attempt to deligitimize my argument through pointing this out is hollow at best. In 1 year, take a look at the spec sheets and performance info. Can't wait to be proven right.
  14. rauchman

    rauchman Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2005
    Oddometer:
    875
    Location:
    Northeast, NJ
    HD is a premium brand, so I would expect their pricing to be inline with the better Euro offerings, and not the value oriented Japanese offerings. You're comparing a brand new bike price to leftover pricing for VStroms seems a little disingenuous. Also, do you really expect a liquid cooled 1250cc to have less performance than a 1000cc VStrom engine? I really don't see how you can get to that conclusion. I'd guess that HD, being a premium brand, would be targeting a premium Euro offering, such as the BMW R1200/1250GS as their baseline, and not a VStrom. But, aside from knowing the engine is a LC 1250cc, I also have no insider info, so I don't "know".

    Regarding your last statement...…. Hollow....hardly. Delegitimizing your assumptions that you list as facts, yeah, I'm gonna do that. You, me, everyone can only speculate on what these bikes will cost and their "specs", but the fact is....we don't know yet.
    madrider5150 likes this.
  15. Ron_Luning

    Ron_Luning Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    Oddometer:
    365
    Location:
    Ellicott City, MD
    Fair enough. Sales flop either way because any other new bike on this forum for ADV enthusiasts blows up when real photos of the new bike break cover. This thread barely moved the needle, with most of the action me and you arguing over nonsense, so not too many people interested.
    rauchman likes this.
  16. rauchman

    rauchman Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2005
    Oddometer:
    875
    Location:
    Northeast, NJ
    LOL.....a beer needs to be had over this conversation.
  17. justinope

    justinope Long timer

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2013
    Oddometer:
    1,864
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV
    fair points all around from you and Mudd, totally can see that.

    I guess I just think differently buying odd brand bikes and trying to be self reliant in general. I had also heard the HD dealerships discriminate hard against non-big v-twin riders. Friend wasn't able to get any good service on his sportster at his local one for example
    rauchman likes this.
  18. rauchman

    rauchman Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2005
    Oddometer:
    875
    Location:
    Northeast, NJ

    Totally get your perspective on this. Fortunately, the folks at my local dealer are pretty nice and in general, I've had pretty positive experiences at HD dealers. I do all the work on my bike myself to include cam installation and so on, so not much experience with the service departments. But I'm sure, like in anything, there are dealers out there that are less than stellar, or even downright suck.

    Apologies in general for getting my fight up in this thread.
    madrider5150 likes this.
  19. Eatmore Mudd

    Eatmore Mudd Mischief on wheels.

    Joined:
    May 28, 2012
    Oddometer:
    3,442
    Location:
    Wet side of WA.
    Every Harley dealership is a privately owned franchise. Harley dealerships around me will do small stuff like tires and batteries on other brands If they 'em in stock but will steer you to brand specific dealers or the more well known Indie shops for stuff beyond that because ya know,, parts and model specific expertise and whatnot. Same thing with the multi line dealerships around here ( Pacific Northwest ) with Harleys and Euro bikes. I do not expect that to hold true with every brand in every place because all dealerships are franchises.
  20. DeepSeaOne

    DeepSeaOne Carnivore

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2013
    Oddometer:
    261
    Location:
    Earth
    The type of rider that wants a Harley has a predisposition towards big bikes so going big was likely smart. Making the front end look like my grandmother's vacuum cleaner was dumb. Very very dumb. I've tried but I just can't un-see that big angry Hoover coming at me in my playpen.

    I like Harleys and the idea of it though. If the engine is anything like the V-Rod mill, minus the weight, they might have a winner.
    dedave and Eatmore Mudd like this.