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Discussion in 'Moto Bellissima: All Other Dualsports' started by Ken Hooligan, Jul 30, 2018.
What were you thinking? LOL.
Hopefully the pan america will not be too heavy, too large, and too expensive.
Yeah I know right? Don’t want it to be just like the other ADV bikes.
It will be right at home with the GSA.
Harley has some serious problems. They had a profitable third quarter, but only because they cut costs, production, and jobs. Their sales have been declining for several years, not just because of Covid this year. They’re going to have to reinvent themselves if they want to stay in business long-term. I hope they can but I’m not very optimistic about it. In my opinion their bikes are over priced and mediocre quality. Their core customer base has aged to the point where many of them don’t ride anymore and Millennials don’t want Harleys. Their electric bike was a complete disaster, $30,000, no one wanted it. I fear the Pan America won’t be very successful. The adventure motorcycle market seems to be moving away from over priced, overweight, two wheeled tanks, to more affordable, lighter weight, midsize bikes. Harley came too late to the party with the Pan America. The market has already passed them by in my opinion.
If I remember right, there was some talk in 2018 of starting with the 1250 and then following that up with a Bronx size adventure bike... not sure where that will go, but yeah, would’ve been better if they started this a decade ago.
I find it hard to believe that executives and their fancy degrees couldn’t see this coming. I guess “money now” is the first priority, future growth is secondary especially when you know you’ll just be moving on to manage another company in 5 years or so.
I don’t think HD will ever fold... change hands and drastically change, yes.
Yup, when the Revolution Max was introduced it was supposed to be able to span the size of 500cc to 1250cc. So the 1250cc PA is the largest 'discussed' displacement for the engine. The Bronx was going to be on the higher side of the midrange at 950cc or something like that (never really introduced).
This is why I have been wondering if the engine will be a part of a new 'architecture' or 'platform' that replaces the Street (now gone for 2021 I understand) and Sportster lines.
As for 'why did Harley let this go on for so long' well, nobody in the business world ever wants to be the one that kills the golden goose. If and when the Sportster gets updated there will be a resounding scream heard around the Country if not the Globe that 'Harley just killed their best 1950's bike.' Yes there have been updates over the decades but nothing real radical. Some people actually like that.
I will say that I love Sportsters and I think the engine is just about perfect for an adventure bike.
So do you not already own a Ulysses?
Had one. Put about 30k miles on it. #65/100 (still have the windshield). I'd call it more of a "touring supermoto" than an adventure bike. It's affinity for packing mud into the front fender, locking the wheel and low-siding was not something I had experienced on other low-fender adventure bikes. Also it ran out of gas before I was ready to get out of the seat. Other than that is was a blast (no pun intended). I occasionally search the classifieds for another (2008 and later vintage).
I was thinking more along the lines of Jim's Baja Harley.
How did it pack mud in the front fender? Did you have the t model with the lower suspension instead of the x?
When commuting to work from Queen Creek, AZ in the mid/late 2000s there was A LOT of traffic on Ellsworth Rd. due to poor urban planning. Thus I used the bike to cut across the local farms to limit my commute time. If these dirt roads were wet the Dunlop D616 front would pick up mud and pack it into the low fender generating a wheel torque and the next time you hit a muddy spot, the combination of that torque and the low mu surface would stop the tire/wheel rotation and tuck the front. Happened to me once more in Tonto National Forest, this time near a big drop. After that I decided to get something more suitable to the riding I was doing at the time. Not the fault of the bike. It was a great bike and I miss it. I just was maybe asking a bit too much of it.
Is it though? Around these forums I can see your point with a number of people focusing on BDR and long offroad/greenlane adventure rides.
When I look around me though, I see something completely different. The big adventure bikes (R1200GS/Super10/Katooms) seem to outnumber the smaller bikes by a significant margin, and maybe because I spend most of my time on the bitumen where you would expect to see the big adventure bikes. Sales numbers seem to support that assertion.
I'm not sure that market is declining much at all, but yes the question still remains: what will HD have going for the PA that you can't find in the entrenched competition?
Did they literally wrap Aquaman in am American flag? Seems a bit on the nose.
What tires are these?
Access to dealership support?? At least where I live BMW, Triumph, and KTM dealers are pretty rare ... while Harley dealerships are much more common.
I guess it comes back to the question on the table...
Will the dealerships support the P-A or will they be like they were with Buells?