Helmet science nerds: Why is crash.org.au ignored?

Discussion in 'Equipment' started by ukAdventurer, Feb 14, 2020.

  1. ukAdventurer

    ukAdventurer Been here awhile

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    I’m no expert but I’m fascinated by PPE science. Particularly related to helmet testing.

    My question is why is the Australian helmet testing called crash.org.au never mentioned?

    https://crash.org.au/

    I only recently sort of stumbled upon it. Everybody talks about ECE, DOT, Snell and Sharp. But I can’t remember ever seeing Aussie “crash” mentioned. It’s odd because they test in ways that others don’t and give scores not pass/fail. Which I love. Uniquely, they test oblique impacts on a moving road surface with a head form with a flexible “neck”. This seems much more realistic than a vertical drop. They also test quite a lot of “dual-purpose” helmets which Sharp ignores.

    worth a look? Or don’t care?

    my helmet scored well (in the top 4)

    CFA98342-10C4-4E5B-8149-0EC36E2DC067.jpeg
    #1
  2. JimVonBaden

    JimVonBaden "Cool" Aid! Supporter

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    Well, if you want opinions on this, how about a link?
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  3. ukAdventurer

    ukAdventurer Been here awhile

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    fair enough. I added a hyperlink and a sample of the test on my current lid.
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  4. C/1/509

    C/1/509 Now with more sarcasm

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    Interesting
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  5. rider1150gsadv

    rider1150gsadv Long timer

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    Interesting indeed. With so many countries having their own standards, who is to say which are/is the definitive one(s)? All I can conclude out of any test results is that it is best to buy the lid that fits the best and has the highest ratings over a broad range. YMMV
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  6. JimVonBaden

    JimVonBaden "Cool" Aid! Supporter

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    :nod Fit is number one. No matter how good a helmet is in crash tests, if it doesn't fit right it becomes more dangerous. That said, fit aside, testing consistency is next up. Hard to compare helmets based on multiple methods of testing. How do we determine what testing is the best testing?
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  7. Doug Just Doug

    Doug Just Doug Silly Party Candidate Supporter

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    Thanks. Always good to have more sources of data.
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  8. swimmer

    swimmer armchair asshole

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    On the face of it this seems like a good source of information and useful when deciding which helmet to buy. I certainly put more faith in agencies outside of the USA (EU, AUS, Japan) when it comes to helmet safety data and generally anything relating to a person's well being.

    Of note would be how far down on the list of dual sport helmets the Arai XD-4 is (which I own) in terms of protection test results when this helmet is considered a premium option.
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  9. eduro

    eduro Been here awhile

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    Fox V3 came in 1st for DS helmets.

    "Magnetic Visor Release System (MVRS) ™ allows the visor to detach during a crash"

    Maybe unfounded but I don't want magnets near my head.
    #9
  10. ukAdventurer

    ukAdventurer Been here awhile

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    I didn’t know about Fox helmets but the v3 beat the better known brands. And it’s an impressive performance. In every aspect for protection.
    #10
  11. JimVonBaden

    JimVonBaden "Cool" Aid! Supporter

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    There has been some independent testing that suggests that the DOT level is as good or better than old Snell, and other standards. This just reinforces my statement that standardized testing isn't.
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  12. lkraus

    lkraus Long timer

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    The DOT tests might be as good as Snell, but Snell testing is done by an independent lab before certification. The DOT sticker just means that the manufacturer claims to meet DOT standards. When NHTSA actually tests a few of those helmets, the failure rate has been in the 30-60% range for the past several years. The manufacturers would not lie to us, would they?
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  13. KingOfFleece

    KingOfFleece SplitWeight(tm) waterproof seat covers Supporter

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    THX. That was extremely interesting.
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  14. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades...

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    Not if they want to keep their money. You think for a minute that any brand that has high representation in the U.S. market - ie Shoei, Arai, Bell, HJC, AGV, and, yes, even Vega to name a few - would risk the multi-million dollar law suits that would result from making a product that did not perform beyond the DOT standards? If any were short cutting you would have read about the law suits, possibly see ads to recruit injured riders in a class action law suit. It is the nature of the U.S. tort system that any accident would likely have the helmet heavily investigated for failure indicating they did not perform to the required level.

    So "claimed" or not, the ambulance chasing attorneys of the U.S. will make sure the name helmet makers meet those standards if involved in and possibly responsible for injuries in an accident. By the way, did you mention the NHTSA and testing? If so, it appears they must do some off the shelf testing. But there is one more thing that pops up in those tests the NHTSA did...

    If you look at those percentages and testing, which I did, you'd find they were helmets you never heard of in the U.S. In fact when looking, over half were half-shell helmets. You need to look at what was tested, find the specifics. In the NHTSA testing I could not find any full face products I mentioned above or any other common brands. Plus there has been some independent testing done with one of the most famous being the Motorcyclist testing involving Dexter Ford and renown helmet testing expert Dr. David Thom. Seems the least expensive helmets they tested were as good as the top brands and even better in impact force transmission.

    Plus if you consider it, does random testing of maybe less than 1% of the quantity sold actually provide an accurate picture of the reality? Actually I think it can if done on a regular basis, using Statistical Process Control testing, which is not what is being done by any independent testing agency. It has to be done in the manufacturing process to keep a running handle on production.

    So I do trust the helmet makers, even Vega, when it comes to the standards for any country. It has to be tested at manufacturer level first. Besides being in the U.S., if the helmet does fail my relatives can sue the hell out of HJC, Joe Rocket, AGV, or whichever helmet I might be wearing.
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  15. ukAdventurer

    ukAdventurer Been here awhile

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    I wonder if anybody has ever sued (successfully) a helmet manufacturer. There are unarguably impacts beyond what any current helmet design can mitigate and how can you know what forces were experienced in an accident afterwards?

    I doubt it has stopped lawyers from trying but unless something like a strap snapped or the shell shattered, I doubt they’d be successful. However, I could be wrong.

    One improvement that I believe Snell made was ensuring that the 2015 certified helmets would also pass ECE. It’s arguable that you’d almost never have 2 impacts in the same place on the helmet but Snell and DOT tests that way. ECE and Sharp so it’s an extremely rare occurrence. So the linings are more forgiving for a single impact.
    #15
  16. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades...

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    Snell quit the double hit after the Motorcyclist article. It was the car racing standard made for the hits a driver would possibly have on roll cages, that they were using until pressured into doing a motorcycle specific standard with inclusion of some changes based on head size (weight) that also had the old standard too strong. It would be good if the entire world would set up a single standard or at least consistency in the regulations they do have. Wouldn't be hard to do, the real problem would be the powerplay, bickering and power exertion of the governments if they ever tried. Brainless politics.
    #16
  17. GSWayne

    GSWayne Old Guy nOOb Supporter

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    I hope you never use earphones or ear buds or helmet speakers, they all have magnets. Also if magnets were dangerous, the level of danger (which so far is undetectable) would be about 10,000 times less dangerous than riding a motorcycle.
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  18. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades...

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    Like he said... Unfounded... maybe a foil liner might take care of everything... :johntm
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