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Discussion in 'Road Warriors' started by indr, Jun 19, 2013.
kill switch, sidestand switch, etc. not wired, or not in the correct state.
Did you GROUND the plug's threads when checking?
"The way I checked that there is no spark is I pulled one of the plugs out, attached it to it's boot and pushed the starter button. I didn't see any arcing on the plug, and there therefore concluded that there is no spark."
You've got one end of the plug in the boot but what are you doing with the plug? If you're just letting it dangle in the air, you won't get a spark 'cause the circuit isn't complete; you have to ground the plug.
Plugs are designed to ground through the head when it's screwed in. You need to connect the threaded part to something that's grounded (and preferably someplace that isn't in bright sunlight, either).
For a few bucks, you can get a plug tester at the auto store; the one I've got has a boot on one end and a plug on the other with a light in the middle. Neat thing about this is that you can plug it in and leave it while you're testing. Works real nice when you think you might have an intermittent spark issue.
My spark tester wised up,
I use to tell my little brother hold on to this metal I stuck in the spark plug boot, tell him to steady himself by holding on to something metal on the bike.
I would kick it over, if he screamed, I knew I had spark.
And if you take the plug out the motor spins faster, makes a bigger spark, he learned.
There should be a drain screw to drain the carb bowl if it is not seized, to see if you are getting gas that far.
If it is seized then you are going to be removing carb and cleaning main jets idle jets choke circuit etc.
Google ninja carbs should help you videos etc.
Get some starting fluid and shoot it in the carbs and see if the bike starts up. If it starts and then dies then you know it is a fuel delivery issue. However, if you shoot it with fluid and it does not at least hit a little bit then you know to look elsewhere.
Yes, not much just a 1 second shot or so. That will let you know if it is a fuel issue as the engine will start and then die but at least you will know then it is a fuel problem.
It sounds like the carbs need a full cleaning/rebuild. There are many stories of old gas doing bad things to carbs. I'd be shocked if any rubber parts from 2010 (did I read that right?) are bad and hard form old age, but all bets are off if you used the wrong chemicals to clean them. Also, any rubber parts are, of course, vulnerable to scratching, scoring, gouging, etc. from poor dis-assembly technique. Don't worry, I'm sure we've all trashed a good part at some time. After you've taken something apart: "oh, THAT is how it was supposed to come apart."
Well look at the bright side- at least you didn't waste a day cleaning the carburetors!
You may have poor compression, wouldn't hurt to test with a compression gauge but in general starting fluid will make it sputter even with poor compression so odds are that is not your problem, but might as well locate a compression tester at some point.
Next thing to do is get a voltmeter and check for an AC voltage being generated by the crank sensor.
Plenty of compression to start. Motor never ran so rings need seating and then a compression check to make sure the "differential" between cylinders is within acceptable limits.
No need to tear it down just yet, something else is going on if it doesn't start.
Well...now you have to make sure them valves are opening and opening at the right time.And that it is also firing at the right time.
BTW I'd try the starting fluid again. I don't think the "new" stuff is all that good and sure evaporates fast. Took a lot of that to start up my little chain saw recently after a few years hibernation, and that was sprayed right at the carb.:eek1
Throttle slides jammed open....spray bottle of gasoline. Oooops the things we used to do.:huh
The old style Ninjetts have a vacuum petcock and need the engine to be running to supply gas to the carbs. For some reason Kawasaki did not include a "prime" selector on the petcock to bypass the vacuum operation. Are you sure you have sufficient gas in the carburetors? If you have a means to do so decant some fuel directly into the carb feed line to endure the float chambers are full.
This used to really irk me with my ninjette- it always took prolonged cranking to get enough gas into the carbs after a winter of sitting to get it to start.
Well, if it's got fuel, spark and compression, go shut it off!
Sounds like fuel is getting to the carbs and there is enough compression to let it start.
I'd try this, remove the spark plugs and put a little gasoline into the cylinders. Not too much, a teaspoon at most. Screw the plugs back in quickly, hook them up and try to start it. I used to use this trick on older bikes that had a hard time starting in the spring.
I'm suspecting something in the timing, either cams or ignition. But I don't think the ignition timing is adjustable (could be totally wrong here). Give the gas test a shot and see what happens. Spraying starting fluid from the outside of the air filter won't let it get to the carbs BTW.
Reading back, are you SURE you have good spark? A timing light is a great way to see if you have spark. You don't have to point it at a fly wheel with timing marks, just hook it up and point it at your hand or something that can't be blinded.
Spark: Maybe Check?
Fuel: Probably check. If the carbs have been cleaned and you can flow fuel from the tank, you probably have fuel.
How old is the gas? If the stuff from last year, you may want to freshen it up.I don't even try burning anything over 3 months old anymore, stabilized or not I just dump it in the bushcar and start with fresh.
Gas in the cylinders, that's probably better than trying to push "starting fluid" into the combusion chamber. You need to bring the slides up for that and if your "starting fluid" is anything like mine, doesn't have a straw on the nozzle to accuratly deliver it.
Keep a fire extinguisher close by.
Sorry, but yes. Fuel delivery failure. At least you know. Aren't you glad you didnt part it out? Something is keeping it from flowing. Pilot jets not as clean as you thought?
You only want to take it apart once more, so make sure its sterile clean. Surgery kind of clean.
Feed your mother from it clean.
Spray out and then blow out every jet and passage.
Then baseline mixture settings, prime position on petcock, and try again.
I've been there and it sucks and I swore they were clean too.
I'd recommend getting a can of spray carb cleaner, the kind with a little plastic straw. Use this to squirt through all the tiny tiny passages to make sure they are clear (after removing the rubber bits of course, the cleaner will not be good for them). Also make sure the floats are installed correctly. Some can be installed upside down,ask me how I know that... They don't work too good like that.
I assume you made sure in the above test that gas was actually present in the carbs? I have had at least one occasion a machine that had a small wire mesh filter above the seat for the fuel inlet valve in the body of the carb itself, and this was keeping the floats from filling properly. Cleaning required removal of the seat and mesh.
I would keep on the fuel track if starter fluid is making the motor go, at least until that avenue is exhausted.
Were you ever using a choke/fuel enrichment knob?