Honda BigFat...or something

Discussion in 'Some Assembly Required' started by GR0NK, Mar 14, 2015.

  1. GR0NK

    GR0NK Got some screws loose!

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2006
    Oddometer:
    10,055
    Location:
    Stuck in 80s
    1983 Honda Big Red 200E, well, what's left of one anyway. Price? Free.99 :D
    The motor is all there but it was left outside without a spark plug.

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    Despite it not having ANY wheels on it, I think it has accommodations for one too many wheels... :wink:



    Sean :bmwrider
    #1
  2. GR0NK

    GR0NK Got some screws loose!

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2006
    Oddometer:
    10,055
    Location:
    Stuck in 80s
    Right. Now let's get to it.

    No use in going any further if the motor is not serviceable so out it comes for disassembly.

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    It won't turn over so I'm thinking the cylinder is in pretty rough shape. On the way there I see the cam journal looks a little scuffed up on the chain side. Maybe it was oil starved for a bit.

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    The other side rides in a bushing and is good. I'm not really concerned and I think I'll just run it. It's not a race engine or anything. :evil


    Sean :bmwrider
    #2
  3. GR0NK

    GR0NK Got some screws loose!

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2006
    Oddometer:
    10,055
    Location:
    Stuck in 80s
    This looks yummy... :puke2

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    Sean :bmwrider
    #3
  4. GR0NK

    GR0NK Got some screws loose!

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2006
    Oddometer:
    10,055
    Location:
    Stuck in 80s
    I was able to "massage" the cylinder off. I think it will buff out. :D

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    A quick look at the piston gave me a theory on how this particular machine was left to rot for so long. It's not quite evident in the next photo but the top ring is stuck. The second compression ring is actually loose but he oil scrapper is tight as well. I've seen this before on motors that ingest cold water through the intake. The top ring instantly seizes in the ring groove. Not uncommon for a three-wheeler to ingest water in these parts.

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    After some cleaning up I think the cylinder will be ok. The piston doesn't look too bad after removing the rings and a bit of cleaning up but my experience tells me to get a new top-end kit anyway. I don't trust pistons that have had a ring seize in them before.


    Sean :bmwrider
    #4
  5. GR0NK

    GR0NK Got some screws loose!

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2006
    Oddometer:
    10,055
    Location:
    Stuck in 80s
    A quick rinse in the parts washer and a few minutes with the hone...

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    There's a line in there that looks like a crack in the cylinder wall. I just noticed it now so I'll take a better look at it. I think it's merely a scratch and that the lighting is making it look worse than it really is.

    I know the top of the cylinder still looks rough but it's just staining. The actual surface is very smooth. I can get a piston in 0.5mm oversize so I may take the hone to it some more until it's right for one.


    Sean :bmwrider
    #5
  6. GR0NK

    GR0NK Got some screws loose!

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2006
    Oddometer:
    10,055
    Location:
    Stuck in 80s
    Surprisingly the valves were not leaking but there's no way I was going to leave them as is.

    I couldn't find my valve spring compressor so I improvised.

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    It's just an old socket and I use a 1/4" drive extension (with a 3/8" adapter) to chuck it in my drill press. Works pretty good but you need a small sandbag or something similar to prop the head at the correct angle and to support the valve from underneath.

    Pretty crusty but I can clean that up.

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    A bit of elbow grease and some lapping compound...

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    And we're good. :nod

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    Sean :bmwrider
    #6
  7. GR0NK

    GR0NK Got some screws loose!

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2006
    Oddometer:
    10,055
    Location:
    Stuck in 80s
    Next I'm going to tackle the ATC frame and remove the rear axle. I need to figure out what direction I'm going in as far as rear suspension. I've seen guys use a monoshock dirtbike back half and weld it to the ATC frame and then widen the swingarm to accommodate the larger rear tire. I've also seen the use of box tubing to fabricate a swingarm and use twin shocks. I can go either way.

    The monoshock sounds like a great idea but it limits how much room is left under the seat and the bike ends up being a bit long. Because of this extra length the rear suspension ends up being pretty soft and rides low in the travel. I'm basically building this to be able to bushwack my way through the forest and that means over logs and rocks so I would like to have as much ground clearance as possible. I don't want to spend money on a stiffer spring either as this is a no-budget build. :lol3

    Here is a monoshock setup. Notice how even unloaded the bike rides pretty low.

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    A twin shock setup with a homemade swingarm. Not really fond of the design and I question the strength. Also the rear axle pillow block holders look like they would catch on everything.

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    Here's more what I'm after:

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    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/hwqDegrsN8o" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


    Or another...

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    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/jwOewfrWhW4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



    Sean :bmwrider
    #7
  8. larryboy

    larryboy Millionaires can support themselves.

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2005
    Oddometer:
    21,494
    Location:
    Über Alles,California
    The best part is that little range lever. :deal

    Looks like fun!!
    #8
  9. NorthernTraveler

    NorthernTraveler Long time Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2009
    Oddometer:
    658
    Location:
    The Big Mitten
    New valves are really cheap - less than $20 from Riders Need Store on eBay.

    Shindy 07-004

    I think either Western Power Sports or Rocky Mountain ATV has them also in a house brand.

    Just sayin!


    Also, Viton valve guides seals are a real good idea as these motors run HOT!
    #9
  10. GR0NK

    GR0NK Got some screws loose!

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2006
    Oddometer:
    10,055
    Location:
    Stuck in 80s
    Anything with a dual range transmission is better. :D


    Thanks for the tip. :freaky
    I'm going to just get it operational to prove the concept first. If it turns out to be as much fun as I'm hoping it will be then I'll give the motor some fresh parts to make sure it runs tip top. :ricky



    Sean :bmwrider
    #10
  11. GR0NK

    GR0NK Got some screws loose!

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2006
    Oddometer:
    10,055
    Location:
    Stuck in 80s
    The carb is something else. I couldn't bear to take pictures. :rofl
    Actually I was so shocked when I took the bowl off that I completely forgot about taking pictures. The float needle was actually stuck :huh I've got the parts soaking in gas/diesel/carb cleaner. Hopefully that will soften up the crud.



    Sean :bmwrider
    #11
  12. cptmoney

    cptmoney Two wheels, only one seat

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2007
    Oddometer:
    681
    Location:
    Western Slope, CO
    Well done, GRONK. Been quite informative watching your work. Looking good! Anxious to hear how it all unfolds...
    #12
  13. Jimmy the Heater

    Jimmy the Heater Dirt Farmer

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Oddometer:
    3,851
    Location:
    Eastern Washington State
    I've come up with a lot of crazy ideas in my head but that is wilder that any of them! I approve!
    #13
  14. GR0NK

    GR0NK Got some screws loose!

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2006
    Oddometer:
    10,055
    Location:
    Stuck in 80s
    Haha. Thanks guys. I have some even wilder stuff bouncing around in the back of my head. 1976 Honda Z50 sidehack using a 125cc Chinese clone motor... :norton I have this "special" buddy who will ride in the hack so we're calling it "The Looney Bin" :lol3

    Anyway, I found a cheap Honda 200X while going through the classifieds. Long travel front end with disc brakes would be nice. It has a 1978 Suzuki TS185 motor in it...supposedly running but not actually bolted in. I'm sure that will foster another cockamamy death machine plan. :wink:

    Here's a pic of it. Looks like I get tires and seat out of her too.

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    It's a few hours away, ok several hours so I''ll see if my buddy is up for a road trip. :freaky


    Sean :bmwrider
    #14
  15. GR0NK

    GR0NK Got some screws loose!

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2006
    Oddometer:
    10,055
    Location:
    Stuck in 80s
    Parts is parts! :evil

    Late 70s CR250. I'm probably going to take some flak from the Vintage racing guys but I think this would be a good donor for the rear end.

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    This thing was in my donor pile (free.99 is always the right price :evil ) so I brought it into the garage to thaw it out. I had originally thought of getting it running again but the bottom end is rusted solid so I don't want to go down that expensive route.

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    Suspension is twin shock so it frees up the room under the seat for the airbox and battery and the swingarm is steel so I can chop it down the middle and widen it to fit an ATV wheel/tire.

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    Oh and that tank is aluminum. I wonder how that would look stripped of paint and polished up? :wink:



    Sean :bmwrider
    #15
  16. Dread_lion

    Dread_lion Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2013
    Oddometer:
    323
    we don't get cool stuff like that here, subscribed! loving it already!
    #16
  17. GR0NK

    GR0NK Got some screws loose!

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2006
    Oddometer:
    10,055
    Location:
    Stuck in 80s
    Belgium! I see you have a decent pile of parts yourself. By the time I get my hands on something 20 years of Canadian winters have taken their toll. Good luck on the XR624. I'm anxious to see what that frame looks like when it comes back from the powdercoater. :freaky



    Sean :bmwrider
    #17
  18. Dread_lion

    Dread_lion Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2013
    Oddometer:
    323
    Thanks man! I'm pretty sure it will still look like shit, although maybe a bit less than now ;). The welds on that sidestand are pretty ugly, so the powercoating isnt going to hide that. But who cares, it will look a whole lot better allready ;).
    Luckily we dont have that much snow here. Here, when an engine has been outside for too long, most people wont touch it, so seeing these kinds of projects, is just inspiring.
    #18
  19. fast1075

    fast1075 Fasterizer

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2013
    Oddometer:
    926
    Location:
    Flaw'da
    Good effort on the engine, BUT. That cylinder will smoke like a hot tar bucket, and foul plugs. The valves and seats are worn WAY beyond service limit, and will lose their seal quickly, especially the exhaust valve. I'll bet the valve guides are FUBAR also. It may "run", but not well, and not for long. Sorry.
    #19
  20. GR0NK

    GR0NK Got some screws loose!

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2006
    Oddometer:
    10,055
    Location:
    Stuck in 80s

    My only concern about the motor was making sure it was serviceable so that I could continue with the build. The bottom-end is good, the gearbox is good and I have all the electrics so I know I can get it running. The top-end parts are all available from DR ATV and Ebay for cheap so it's all good. :wink:

    I like working on these little Honda motors. Even if I trash one it's not an expensive lesson. Unlike the motors I normally work on...

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    That's the result of a valve seat dropping out at 8000+ RPM on a "nicely" built KTM 540 motor. I already had 5000 miles on it but I just got careless one day, repeatedly bouncing it off the rev limiter for 50 miles on bad gas. That's a several thousand dollar mistake... :baldy

    Here are a couple more little Hondas I'm working on. :evil

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    Sean :bmwrider
    #20