Honda CL450 resto

Discussion in 'Old's Cool' started by johnnyc14, Dec 20, 2008.

  1. SimpleSimon

    SimpleSimon Aspiring advrider

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    Did you compare the length of the needles in carb kits? I did a swap with the Keysters and found the gaskets to be so big as to possibly interfere with the floats. I've also heard that they the needles tend to be out-of-spec. I will likely pull mine and compare them against the old ones before I put a new tank on my CB175 project.

    Just thought I would ask.
    #61
  2. krehmkej

    krehmkej Been here awhile

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    +1 on Keyster needles being out of spec. I went crazy trying to get my RD125 running right and it turned out to be the (*^(_*^ Keyster parts. Threw them away and used the old needles. Problem solved. I would NEVER again use any Keyster branded part. This was later confirmed by a friend who owned a motorcycle parts store who quit selling the brand for just this reason.
    #62
  3. AlfromMI

    AlfromMI Long distance nut

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    Great job on the writeup and the restore. Wish I had my old CL450 back after seeing yours.
    #63
  4. johnnyc14

    johnnyc14 Been here awhile

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    I've heard this before and I didn't compare the old needles but as far as I can tell it's running good. I won't know for sure until I get to ride it. I won't throw away the old parts, that for sure! Thanks for the heads up guys.
    #64
  5. Ernest T

    Ernest T Long timer

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    I put a keyster kit in my XL350 and although it seems to run good, I can't tune the carb as outlined in the manual. It says to turn the air screw in until it misses, then turn it out until it misses then split the difference. I can't make it miss by turning the screw out. From what I understand, backing out the screw should make it go lean and that isn't working. I'm wondering if the jets or needle that came with the kit is the problem. Im going to order Honda ones and see if I can make it work like its supposed to.
    #65
  6. johnnyc14

    johnnyc14 Been here awhile

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    You guys were right about the Keyster carb kits. I wound up putting the old slide needles and needle jets back in.
    Here's some pictures of the jet needle, maybe some of you call it the slide needle and the needle jets.
    Here you see the Keyster needle on the right and the stock one on the left. You can clearly see the taper of the needle starts much higher on the stock needle and the final size at the bottom of the taper is much smaller on the Keyster one. This was causing a rich flutter at part throttle. The needle jets are very close to correct but the Keyster one measure 2.90mm inside diameter and the stock one measures 2.75mm. Not a big difference but I believe it contributed to the richness at part throttle. With the stock parts in place I can cruise along at part throttle and the rpm stays constant with no surging. I could not do that with the Keyster parts in place. I did use the gaskets, the needle/seat assemblies and the pilot jets from the kits. The main jets were 125's and I installed 130's because of the pod air filters.
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    #66
  7. johnnyc14

    johnnyc14 Been here awhile

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    Today I tackled something that has bugged me since I started riding this bike. The mufflers on this bike have no baffles left in them and the short "tail pipes" were welded on by the previous owner, those are supposed to be baffles too. The pipes are supposed to look like the one on the left in this pic.
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    But mine look like this and they are very LOUD.
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    I found some electrical conduit pipe that is the perfect size to just slide inside the tail pipes. I also got some 3/4" ID pipe at the same time along with a few big washers and some welding and I made some baffles.
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    What a difference, it sounds like a new bike!! I'll have to wait for dry weather to rid it and see how it performs.
    #67
  8. johnnyc14

    johnnyc14 Been here awhile

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    I've finally, after a lot of fooling around, got my 450 running perfectly. I had problems with the Keyster carb kit needles and needle jets but I also had a problem with my ignition switch. After it got hot the switch resistance would go up and it would get to the point where I had about 4 volts dropped across the switch. The coils didn't like running at 8 volts so the engine would develop a miss-fire as it got hotter. I wound up installing a relay to feed the coils directly from the battery using the original coil feed from the switch to trigger the relay. I had the bike out for a long ride today and it ran perfectly the whole day for the first time. I've been frustrated with the damn thing and have been ignoring it for quite a while so I'm glad I finally figured it out. :D


    You can use any 4 or 5 pin standard automotive relay. The pins are generally identified with the standard ISO numbers 87, 30, 85 and 86. If the relay is a 5 pin design it will also have a pin 87a. Pins 85 and 86 are the low current side of the relay and will be used to close the contacts between pins 87 and 30. Using this picture will help explain.

    [​IMG]

    The black wire with the white tracer stripe that now is the ignition feed to the coils will be connected to pin 85 of the relay and pins 86 will be connected to ground. When the ignition is on this will energize the magnetic switch and connect pins 87 and 30. Pin 87 will be connected directly to the battery with a 10 amp fuse as close to the battery as possible and pin 30 will be connected to both coils where the black/white wire was originally. It takes very little energy to close the low current side of the relay so even if there is some resistance in the ignition switch the relay will still work and connect the coils directly to the battery. You can get relays that come pre-wired with a connector and pigtail harness at any shop that installs auto accessories like remote starters. I just tie stapped my relay to the wire harness right by the coils

    I use electrical terminals purchased from Vintage Connections to match to OEM ones on the bike.
    <!-- m -->http://www.vintageconnections.com/<!-- m -->
    #68
  9. Boojum

    Boojum I Miss the PartyBoss

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    By-God! Those baffles look pretty sweeeeet. Nice Work!


    Boojum
    #69
  10. killfile

    killfile 49/50

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    John,
    It's been a year so you probably got rid of it, but if you have the brace/stay for the CL350 front fender, I would love to buy it from you! I am running my 350 fenderless, but the fender support actually works as a brace on those early forks!

    Fantastic thread. I have been quite impressed with the Kawasaki H1D thread and finally read through this one.

    Anything significant that you found from doing the Honda that you are now doing differently with the Triple? I noticed the Honda was duplicolor spray enamel, but you are now doing baked enamel?
    #70
  11. johnnyc14

    johnnyc14 Been here awhile

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    Sorry, I have donated all my leftover Honda twin parts (I had 3 giant Rubbermaid tubs full) to another guy doing a 450 up. The Duplicolor engine enamel is what I used on both engines but it gets much harder if you bake it for 2 hours at 250 degrees F. Instruction are on the can. I did not do this on the Honda and the paint was soft until the engine was run a few times. It seems to be fuel proof and resistant to cleaners like brake clean. Not quite as hard as powder coat but I'm never going to send engine cases to a powder-coater after my experience with the engine side covers on my H1. They did not mask the holes as they were instructed to do. I had to do a lot of work with a Dremel and sanding drum to get the coating out of some of the holes.
    #71