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Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by DesertPilot, Feb 8, 2019.
And the old sport tourers like the BMW K1600 GT's become..?
Just wait until they have workable active gyros that can straighten any bike, even on single track. Any time now, for realz. Then you will see GoldWing Offroad Adventure Dreadnaught, with built-in espresso machine and hot dog sizzler, to save on Starbucks bills.
esp comfy for those of us north of 6ft
i am talking about r1200 st,k1200gt and the like Almost every manufacturer hasd one.....now not so much I would call a k1600 a tourer not a sports tourer
Very interesting thread that I can relate to
... Just past 60 and relatively short and not muscular I'm getting more concerned about bike weight/balance. My '06 RT 1200 is great at any speed over 20mph and has a low enough seat to be easily mountable. I don't find the weight (505# dry) an issue except on uneven pavement at gas stops and driveways. Pretty balanced getting up on the centerstand even if full loaded side and top cases.
I also have an F700 (410# dry) which I offroad a bit...... logging roads in BC, and runs like the Gray Pass trail (summer only gravel for 60 miles) and the Dempster Highway (only once so far :). It isn't my favourite on highway not because of lack of power (it can do 70 mph all day) but comfort, wind protection, fuel range, chain drive and carrying capacity are not as nice as the RT. But for flexibility of going onto interesting side roads it wins every time. Even this weight is a bit concerning when I'm by myself if I have a fall and have to upright the bike (which I have done) or it lands on top of me (haven't done)
I thought about selling both bikes to get a GS1200. It would be more highway suitable, but I'm really worried the extra weight (530# before gear) and seat height would get me in too much trouble when I do go offroad.
My ideal right now might be a 600/700 that is even lighter than my f700 and with a few more features like cruise, shaft drive and better wind protection. Thats probably not possible because those are weight additive.
I hope BMW, Kawasaki Honda, or someone does come up with a smooth, light, short seat alternative, and then I might go shopping again. Has to be a twin for vibration, and super flexible for both long slab cruising and mild off road.
I do agree with above posts. The big ADV bikes are really for touring with occasional gravel and most don't ride them as 'offroad' bikes. I suggest not much growth in the big ADV market and better future volume for the mid size bikes.
Been there... done that... and a lot of posters here have expressed a similar concern. There seems to be a big split between 'bikes I wouldn't mind having to pick up' and bikes in the 'bloody hell, I've done it to myself now' category. The dividing line seems to be in the 500-800 cc and 350-450 lb weight range. This raises the question of just how big an adventure bike can become before most people are no longer willing to take it into adventurous places.
Of course, every time I think they're already too big, I see someone blow by on a weather-beaten GS1200, plastered with mud and dust, with battered luggage and a set of TKC80s worn down to bare rubber on his way back from old mining trails I'd be concerned about tackling on a mountain bike...
Mass centralization seems to be a really big factor once you get above 400# wet weight, let alone the 500-550# class, and while man of us have our grumbles with the R1200GS, I'll give it that - it carries itself nice and low in a way where a capable rider's skill is a bigger factor in controlling the bike than its mass. Any bike that wants to get heavier than a Yamaha Super Tenere or GSA would really have to start losing suspension travel to have a low enough center of gravity to be useful, and that bike would start looking like a sport-tourer pretty quickly. That's not a bad thing, but there's a reason the FJR, Goldwing, V-Rods, and their ilk are not tall bikes.
About this big.
The Honda CB500X, with the Rally Raid kit installed thereon, is something that might meet your requirements.
There's a big difference between a dual sport and an adventure bike. An adventure bike is one that's good for touring and going on Forest Service roads or some jeep trails. I can take my wife with me on those. I have done Black Bear on my 990 when I was 60, so it's pretty capable. For rougher things, I want something lighter and smaller, like my KLR or DR, or even a WR 250, but they're not great for touring comfortably. I really don't want an adventure bike that weighs more than my 990. I could stand less power in a lighter bike, but I don't need a heavier bike with more power. Hell, we used to tour the country on a Yamaha 650 twin. And it could go down FS roads.
I think you would really benefit from looking at R80GS specs; despite being 30yo+ it is a more practical mount what adv morphed into now. "The adventure bike concept was never about building 1200cc dirt bikes " simply because it was never about building 1200cc 600lbs behemoth to begin with.. just saying.
Great post till you got to here. You are wrong on this critical point. As a former CJ-5 owner and current 4Runner owner, I can definitely inform you that if you are not in a JEEP, a real jeep with a J, you sir are a Mall Poser!
Funny how, when you get into parts of the world where there are NO paved roads, you mostly see Toyota, Nissan and Mitsubishi 4x4's. Occasionally old Land Rovers or Ladas, but never Jeeps. Today's jeeps are mostly driven by mall poseurs, even when they have all the off-road goodies bolted on.
Astute observation. I went from CJs to Toyota trucks with my first hi-lux in 1996. Yota knows how to build an off-road vehicle. I have since had four yota trucks and am on my third 4Runner now.
The absolute only things Jeep ever got right after the mid 70s, and by Jeep I mean the ones with flat sheet metal panels, is short wheel base, short over hang, and short turning radius. My CJs taught me more about poor design and how to fix shit than any other vehicle I have owned. I am now into ATVs and dirt bikes off road, my Runner only sees cushy dirt travel (stuff I could ride the Tenere on ;-).
And yet I've known my share of CJ/TJ/YJ Jeeps with lift kits and oversize mud tires that never saw anything more gruelling than road resurfacing downtown. Virtually every category of motorcycle and 4-wheel vehicle has it's posers.
For the record, I drive a 2012 Chevy Equinox AWD because it fits my needs perfectly.
To bring it back to the big ADV bikes, If I were to buy a GS12 Adventure FOR THE IMAGE and loaded it down with Touratech stuff I would consider myself a poser because I don't intend on riding like that. If I bought the standard GS12 and added some options to make it a better tourer for my needs, then I would not consider myself a poser.
Image does play some role in a lot of purchases, but what makes a person a poser is trying to create an image of something that person is not. NOT what they actually ride or drive.
Every time I see those I start daydreaming about being a CB500X owner. They're the boring all-too-reliable sedan of motorcycles and I still would love to own one.
Right on! I'd much prefer them lightening the 650-800cc bikes and making them more dirt-worthy vs adding more cc/power to the mix. A liter-class adv twin making 100HP+ at the wheel is already making more power than can be fully used without breaking the law in most states. Anybody disagreeing should learn how to downshift and turn off all the rider aids. An unrestrained 100HP in 1st will either wheely or spin, both of which are usually illegal. Anywhere near the torque peak, 100HP also chews knobs and breaks traction at will in the dirt. Weight, not power modesty, is the enemy offroad. If one has enough power to be quicker to 80MPH than most cars, and can cruise easily at 85MPH+ with a passenger and luggage, one doesn't really NEED more power unless they're racing. A DL650 can easily exceed 100MPH. Where is that even legal on a public road in North America anymore? A Tiger 800 can do that with power to spare. We don't NEED more power than a Tiger 800 makes. We NEED more DIRTAAAAAAAY!
I'm looking forward to the possibility of stripping 50lb off of a KTM 790 or a cheaper Tenere 700 in the next few years. If I can't swing one of those, my DRs are getting piston kits, cams, and suspension. 400lb is rideable for me, a mere mortal, in the singletrack.
The truth is they will get as big as we are willing to pay for. No sales no bike.
FYI, my "cars" for the last 25 years or so have been CJs and TJs, and probably will be similar Jeeps for the rest of my driving life. And no, I don't go "rock crawling" in them, either, because despite the marketing, a stock Jeep is not nearly as rough and tumble as many think, and I harbor no illusions about that.
I do, however...:
Drive the TJ to and from work.
Use it as my road trip "convertable."
Pull down dead trees and drag logs with a cable or chain.
Take the doors off it so I can spit the hot boiled peanut shells out when on summertime backroad joy rides.
Strap my Trials bike onto the back of it and park it in the middle of my 40 acre wooded playground, where it can't be seen from the surrounding roads.
Strap the kayaks onto its stainless over-the-roof rack.
Launch and retrieve the sailboat on questionable ramps.
Drag the generator all over the yard to power an electric chain saw.
Drive it through Goo Goo Car Wash a couple times a year.
And yeah, on the few occasions I have reason to go to a mall, I'll drive it there, too.
...all just because I enjoy its practical versatility and don't have to feel so finicky about "abusing" it, as I would any kind of spit-shine and glitter conventional car.
All that is completely commensurate with my point.