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Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by creeper, Oct 8, 2004.
well it looks good. If it's is good at helping I could careless
ooh, Mr. Prostitute...
I was looking for wisdom. Somebody should gut this thread. Good at the beginning and the end. Sort of like the valves on our bikes.
These valves are a pain in the ass to set. Like some of you I have set valves for 45 years of motorcycling so when I struggle I feel like the lone ranger.
Some stuff that helped me get'r done.
1. Throw a couple of rags over the battery area so it becomes a tool tray.
2. If you bought a 2 ended motion pro tool put a piece of masking tape on the correct end so you always use it and identify it fast.
3. Put on your camping headlamp to see in the recesses if the light is bad.
4. loosen the jam nuts a turn or so with the wrench and stick a little screwdriver in the slot and tighten the jam nut finger tight.
5. Stick the feeler gauge in and LEAVE IT IN(that's what they all say) until you are finished with some good tightness on the jam nut.
6. With the feeler gague in place use the little screwdriver to tighten on the slot and feel with the gauge. You can only tighten. If you loosen everything falls apart and you have to start over. When it feels right (a little drag)sneak in with the wrench and put a touch of tightness on the jam nut. Shove the feeler gauge out of the way with the wrench but leave the feeler gauge in place. Try the feel again. OK tighten the jam nut a little more again, remove the feeler gauge and final tighten. Check it one last time if you are paranoid or move to the next from the other side of the bike.
Dont be afraid to push and pull on the radiator hoses to get access. If you have the motion pro feeler gague you can set the valves with the toolkit tools. A torque wrench is worthless for this job. If anything invest in a regular allen wrench and cut the shorter end a little shorter. I didn't do this but I think it would help get in on a couple of the valve cover bolts.
If possible shrink your hands or train your wife or your monkey to do the job. She loves you...right
I'd do 3 desmo ducatis for one frickin KTM. Maybe it'll get better.
Bill in Tomahawk, WI
Maybe it's too early for this kinda crap, but I can't finish reading your post because of your intro - WTF bill? creeper gives you a method that, well let me put it this way:
I have never adjusted the valves on an engine before. I am moderately well inclined to wrenchin' but not a Wrench. The only part of the process I had real trouble with was knowing how to "use the force", or feel an adjustment to three decimal places. But that had nothing to do with the guide, just meant that I was on a steep learning curve.
So please do us a favor and try to say the magic words:
Is this a mutual admiration society or a thread on setting valves. How about we put something together that is useful instead of chicks, bullshit a couple of men's ideas. I'd like to know a simple way to lock the crank at TDC.
What about you.
Thank you to all who have posted on this thread.
I had to read 7 pages of bullshit to get to your comments brother meat, which were most helpfull.
Bill in Tomahawk, WI
it's exactly through the posting of 3 pages of "bullshit" that more ideas and sparks of ingenuity arise from interested parties, making the revisions possible.
The filler in-between is always fun to read.
i say 'thanks!'.
Sorry bill, but the tone of your post was misleading. Try a playful or silly approach instead of the Angry Kid (see http://www.atomfilms.com/af/spotlight/series/angrykid/ for the inference - just my way of burying the hatchet )
Wizdom is in Post 1, followed by socializing and the occasional tidbit of additional information (try to enjoy the banter, creeper (in this case) earned it I'd say).
Locking the crank at TDC-C right? creeper has another gem for ya in case you missed it - in the index next to this thread:
how to lock it? just lock up the rear wheel? clamp? bungee? sumpin'? sorry but it wasn't an issue for me; did your crank move during the adjustments?
Mr. Prostitute doesn't hurt either...
I dont like to touch the rear wheel, call me crazy or childish but I take off the countershaft cover and put the bike in high gear, pull the plug and turn the crank using a ratchet and socket on the nut holding the countershaft on. Works for me.
As for TDC I was trying to figure out if, when the oil is drained, you could insert KTM part no.5580 30 080 000 crankshaft locking bolt. Would that put us at TDC or would we be at the point of ignition. Inquiring minds wonder if that would work for a valve set. Maybe you never chopped a straw off inside an engine but I have(not a KTM). Is there a TDC mark BTW?
Bill in Tomahawk, WI
I won't call you crazy if'n you say why you won't turn the engine with the rear wheel. Enquiring minds want to know...
I don't know that part or why a locking bolt on the crank would put the engine at a predetermined position. That sounds like one smart bolt! Someone about might know that system; still I am not sure why you want it locked; you "wonder if that would work for a valve set" - not sure what you mean by that.
Aw the straw does get stuck in between the piston and chamber some but man is it fun shooting it out on the compression stroke!!! My 03 has a little window that supposedly is for visualizing TDC (not sure if its TDC-C though) but mine is always fogged up so I just use the straw. What's the worst a straw fragment would do anyways?
It isnt that I need to lock the flywheel. We need an easy and accurate way to find TDC for valve settting. If the bolt in question could locate TDC it we could eliminate the straw idea. Old fuel line works better for me anyway.
I come from the world of Airhead BMW's and every BMW has a TDC mark on the flywheel, the valves stick out the side so I am spoiled, OK, and the KTM pisses me off.
While I am on a rant let me add that so far I have seen zero tech help from KTM North America. Ever wonder about what kind of training a KTM mechanic gets? Who is in charge of tech training at KTM North America. I heard there was a rally out in west this summer. Did they do any tech teaching?
I got a few questions for the factory engineer. Think they exist?
Bill in Tomahawk,WI.
In that thread that creeper wrote, he stipulated that the TDC-C "spot" doesn't need to be exact. What was it, a few degrees before or after the TDC-C spot has no real effect on the valves due to the, um, let me quote the bugger!
and he continues:
Actually he stated this in the adjustment thread (Post #1):
And once more he states it just a bit further down...
So bill, I suggest you drop this here and now. You don't want a reputation for being one of those fellas who beats a dead horse, like in some of those threads we would rather not talk about...
Creeper, I just wanted to say thanks for making my first Valve adjust a big success. I Followed your guide as best I could and I hardly had to swear at all! Except when I broke the Feeler Gauge
<IMG class=imgBorder onmouseover="this.className='imgBorderOn'" title="jimbud > Josh's 1996 KTM 620 RXC photo" onmouseout="this.className='imgBorder'" height=450 alt="jimbud > Josh's 1996 KTM 620 RXC photo" hspace=0 src="https://jimbud.smugmug.com/photos/46942641-M.jpg" width=600 border=0>
thankfully I had the old standby to use. Too bad it offered almost no feel at all! But one tool I found to be invaluable in this process was the Performance tool in the next picture. I had a 5mm allen wrench that was only 3/4" long. So I was able to slip in onto the allen bolts and then turn it with a small wrench. That was the only way for me to get an allen wrench onto those bolts. Oh, and a head lamp from my camping kit made the job of seeing the valves and where to put the wrench possible.
<IMG class=imgBorder onmouseover="this.className='imgBorderOn'" title="jimbud > Josh's 1996 KTM 620 RXC photo" onmouseout="this.className='imgBorder'" height=450 alt="jimbud > Josh's 1996 KTM 620 RXC photo" hspace=0 src="https://jimbud.smugmug.com/photos/46942649-M.jpg" width=600 border=0>
Thanks again creeper. The intakes were too tight and now that they are properly adjusted I can barely kick the stinking bike started! I guess thats a good thing. Right?
Glad it went so well in your first attempt Josh... I think.
I've been meaning to get one of those head light thingies... looks like it beats trying to aim assorted floor stand lights at the work area.
Your description for the adjustment is excellent. I would add that if you are in the woods and one of the nuts backs off and it really rattles just repeat the steps but back the adjuster off 90 degrees after touching the head of the valve. It will be close enough to continue riding.
I use two Snap-On tools that really aid in adjustment:
1) their short handle 10 degree offset 8-10mm wrench. It gets in the limited space like a champ (p/n XSM810).
2) the bent step blade feeler gauge set FB322 that goes from .004" up to .027" (with most blades you need for every bike you will ever have) also works great in the close work space. You just remove the blade you need (.005" or .006") and insert it. You can measure where the adjustment happens to be when you first open it up. That you can record along with your adjustment for a historical view of changes in adjustment.
They are handy for eliminating shadows from your head. Of course, you won't be able to tell when Colin is sneaking up behind you.
Yeah I will. He giggles when he's excited... can't help himself.
How you doin brutha?
tee hee hee....
Like I said...
Hi there fellow LC4 aficionados,
Below is a repost of some comments made over a year ago by JPF on KTMTalk, and my response to those comments.
Who, or what method you agree with isn't all that relevant, what is relevant is that the information and opinion is available for you to make a more educated decision. I would have posted a return response by JPF, but there was none.