Husqvarna FE501S & FE350S

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by trailrider383, Sep 11, 2014.

  1. OneManWolfPack

    OneManWolfPack Been here awhile

    Joined:
    May 21, 2018
    Oddometer:
    747
    Location:
    Calgary
    Perhaps air forks will be the way to go in the future. It is a tough ask of a suspension to be nice and compliant when on a day ride lightly loaded and then load it up with 30lbs of overnight gear and also expect it to handle it..
    Bitingdog likes this.
  2. Fast1

    Fast1 Twisted Throttle

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2007
    Oddometer:
    5,472
    Location:
    Bridge over Troubled Water

    I used the Red Line like water product in my TE630 Marzocchi forks almost 10 years ago based on that chart. It did make a difference mated to more air gap. I could get to the point of bottoming the forks in large sand whoops at speed along with noticably softer dampening for my ride style/weight.

    That chart must be older than that even. Has it been updated in the last 8 years with the current fork oils on the market?

    A bit more from the same man, Peter Verdone, that instigated my viscosity fork oil changes and volume back in 2011.

    The most difficult part of understanding oil height tuning is that it controls the air spring inside the fork and as such it needs to be tuned with respect to changing load, not fork motion. For example, under very hard braking, almost 100% of the weight of the bike will be held up by the front end. The fork compresses under this increased load, seeking equilibrium. Because of the reduced air volume in the fork, the air must compress, making the rate of this air spring increase at some exponential. By adjusting the oil height, the exact amount of rate can be made available to soak up bumps while under very hard braking. If the fork is bottoming under hard braking, the oil height will need to be raised. If the fork is not still soaking up bumps in this situation, oil height will need to be lowered. If the fork is bottoming from square edged bumps, while not under braking, the shims at the back of the stack should be changed.

    upload_2021-5-27_19-49-14.png

    Oil height is the final adjustment to make in the general tuning of the front suspension. In general, a racer will want the suspension to just bottom at least once on a given rough course, this ensures that full travel is being used. Street riders will keep a few millimeters on preserve for huge potholes and the unknown.

    Increments should be no more than 2-3mm at a time. Oil can be added to the fork while it is in place on the bike just by removing the top caps. Since the height cannot be measured when the fork is on the bike, note the starting height and add by cc's. The volume of cc's can be approximated to mm of oil height by mm=cc/(Pi*r^2) when r is the radius of the inside of the fork tube. Next time the fork is of the bike, re-measure the oil height. This is the new oil height.

    Whenever possible, know what volume of oil you are running in your fork to achive the desired height. By draining oil out the bottom of the fork via the slow speed compression adjuster and refilling through the cap, you can oil tune very rapidly compared to a full fork dissassembly. For the racer, this is a MUST. If this oil tuning is being done for reasons other than temperature change, you may have to decrease the height when using a thicker oil and vis-a-vis

    The reason for first setting the oil height to the minimum allowable height will sound odd to many at first glance. The oil height of a fork effectively controls a progressive air spring inside the fork. The less air inside the fork (ie. more oil), the quicker the air spring will ramp up it's effectiveness and the more powerful it will be at the last part of the travel. Stock oil heights are established to ensure that an under sprung fork will never bottom even under the hardest conditions and the heaviest loads. When performance tuning, we know exactly who is going to be on the bike and the conditions that it will be used. Oil height tunes how the bike is sprung during hard, prolonged brakeing. Ususally, the springs in the fork are changed when setting the bike up, so the oil height needs to be changed as well. We do not want a bogus oil height to effect the spring and damper tuning. In the last step in the general tuning of the fork, oil height will be raised, to support the bike under hard braking, only if necessary.

    To establish the minimum oil height the goal is to ensure that the fork will have, at all times, the proper amount of lubrication and fluid available for all of it's components. Theoretically, on RSU (right side up) or USD (up side down) forks, oil needs to rise above the top of the damper a distance equal to the length of the top out spring, while the fork, spring, and damper are at full extension. Once the oil is at this point, collapse the fork and damper and measure the oil height in the traditional manner. This is our theoretical minimum oil height that cannot be passed. The difficulty is getting the height to the correct range.

    For track use, ride the bike at a moderate speed and grab enough front brake so that the rear wheel is just coming off the ground. You are not trying to do a nose wheelie, just stopping as quickly as possible using just the front brake. A bit of compression damping is good for this since you do not want the fork flying too far past equalibrium. You should not bottom, but uses up just about all of your fork travel. The oil lock piece should be removed. Add oil to prevent bottoming, remove oil for more travel.
    Bitingdog likes this.
  3. Fast1

    Fast1 Twisted Throttle

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2007
    Oddometer:
    5,472
    Location:
    Bridge over Troubled Water
    More for those that want to read about dampening and oil viscosities by Peter Verdone

    https://www.peterverdone.com/archive/damping.htm

    Lower viscosity oils increase the proportion and higher viscosity oils decrease the proportion of the velocity scale (Q). In other words, oil viscosity effects every part of the damping curve. Oil is very, very, very important.

    upload_2021-5-27_20-8-48.png


    and springs

    https://www.peterverdone.com/archive/springs.htm

    Low speed dampening

    https://www.peterverdone.com/archive/lowspeed.htm

    High Speed dampening

    https://www.peterverdone.com/archive/highspeed.htm
    .
    Bitingdog and WIsixfitty like this.
  4. Comanche13

    Comanche13 Been here awhile Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2016
    Oddometer:
    254
    Location:
    Campbell River
    My god great info , gone are the days when I simply put a heavier weight oil , and some valve springs from a Chev small block , and # 3 1” flat washers in the fork tubes of my 1986 Yamaha XT 600 , could not do much to the rear shocks regardless the front fork improvements I did on the suspension for that bike improved the ride 70% us old farmers had to improvise especially when your 60 miles from the nearest town , good work you guys
    Bitingdog and empedrado like this.
  5. Comanche13

    Comanche13 Been here awhile Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2016
    Oddometer:
    254
    Location:
    Campbell River
    Hopefully this shock stuff is done for a while we will need shock therapy , a few shots of Scotch
  6. Fast1

    Fast1 Twisted Throttle

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2007
    Oddometer:
    5,472
    Location:
    Bridge over Troubled Water
    Suspension tuning has to follow a scientific process for getting close to an optimal state of tune. Getting the springs sorted out is the first step in setting up suspension. Damping follows this and cannot correct problems that originate in spring selection. The correct order of suspension tuning should be:

    .5. Set approximate rear ride height.
    1a. set Oil Height to the minimum height.
    1b. Reduce rear shock nitrogen pressure to minimum spec.
    2. modify the Oil Lock Piece - for race, eliminate or practically eliminate effectiveness of the oil lock piece. For street, reduce the effect of the oil lock piece if under hardest hit, more than 3mm of travel is left unused.
    3. Spring Rate (& Sag) - this is done by changing springs (and preload).
    4. Slow Speed Damping - this is done by changing oil viscosity and in some cases, slow speed orifice and needle size.
    4.5 Straighten fork tube - these can be slightly bent. straighten the hell out of 'em.
    5. High Speed Damping - this is changed by changing valves and/or shim stacks.
    6a. Oil Height - this change tunes the last 1/5th of travel. Raise the oil height from the minimum if the fork is bottoming or practically bottoming.
    6b. Rear shock nitrogen pressure should be raised in 25psi increments only to prevent cavitation.
    7. Fine tune rear ride height for corner exit. Fine tune front fork clamp position for corner entry.
    8. Re-sag bike.






    This chart by Peter Verdone has the Motorex products within the list.

    I just ordered some RedLine (like water) to try in my 4cs forks in place of the Motorex Racing 2.5w that I put in a few years back.

    I will run an air gap staring at 120 mm and test. (spec is 100mm but the WP youtube 4CS fork service videos indicate 110mm.

    [​IMG]
    Baroquenride and Anyone like this.
  7. Comanche13

    Comanche13 Been here awhile Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2016
    Oddometer:
    254
    Location:
    Campbell River
    Off topic don’t know how to start a new post , but here goes , I just put a new tire on my 501 rear , and I know there is a lot of different opinions and rider terrain variations of rider styles , maintainence , and costs affiliated with preference on mousses , tubeless , tubes , etc , there are a lot of options , so just wanted to put my 2 bits in that I ‘ m on my 3 rd tire now with my Nitro mousse , size at purchase was 140 -18” it has shrunk a bit so I went to a 130 -18” Pinernelli tire MT 21 , not my tire of choice but it will last me 3 - 4 months I have been home now for 7 weeks and have put 6000 km on the bike and the mousse has had a total of 18000 plus km on it not bad , the front Nitro mousse only second tire same mileage , so they hold out pretty good for my style of riding which would be 30% pavement and the rest logging roads and a little bit of single track , I also try to keep the speed down to 100 km 60 mph . Just doing sprockets front rear and new chain , I have used expensive chain a few times depends on availability they have to order me one so I’m not sure what I will get , my dealers supplier will dictate what is available but but I asked to order me up medium priced chain with o ring - x ring this time as I do not see any advantage on the high priced chain for longevity regardless of maintenance , and we will see how the aluminum steel rear sprocket holds out I know the advantage to the aluminum is the weight gyro effect , which should be better on the final drive and rear bearing components , I generally run 52 tooth on bikes but due to scarcity my dealer only had a 51 Renthal at the time , what are some of your thoughts on chain and sprocket brands for longevity.
  8. Snake Oiler

    Snake Oiler If the world didn't suck, we would all fall off Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2016
    Oddometer:
    5,887
    Location:
    Pennsylvania, but living in a toy hauler full-time
    Damn it's a good day. I'm learning a lot about this subject. Thanks
  9. OneManWolfPack

    OneManWolfPack Been here awhile

    Joined:
    May 21, 2018
    Oddometer:
    747
    Location:
    Calgary
    Since you are in Canada I would use this stock xring chain. It's cheaper because it is plain grey not fancy schmancy gold. Second you are running 14:52? Not sure a 118 link chain is long enough but if it is:

    Chain

    https://bfdmoto.com/collections/dirt-bike-drive/products/did-520-vt2-x-ring-chain

    Rear sprocket. The bi metal ones last a long time.

    https://bfdmoto.com/collections/dirt-bike-drive/products/powerparts-2k-rear-sprocket-by-supersprox

    Front sprocket. I prefer steel.


    https://bfdmoto.com/collections/dir...s-ironman-front-sprocket-husqvarna-ktm-gasgas
    Bitingdog likes this.
  10. renogeorge

    renogeorge Let's ride!! Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2007
    Oddometer:
    7,017
    Location:
    Reno
    Any of the name brand X ring chains have been good for me-DID, RK, Regina, etc. I always figured on 15,000 miles on my 990 and 690 with no chain lube. Smaller/lighter bikes should do at least as well. I only use Dirt Tricks/Ironman steel rear sprockets They are light weight and truly wear like iron. I typically use OEM fronts and change them when they start to hook. For me I usually change fronts at least twice during the life of the chain. FWIW
  11. Comanche13

    Comanche13 Been here awhile Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2016
    Oddometer:
    254
    Location:
    Campbell River
    Thank you for the reply , yes you are right 118 link is a little tight , the chain I took off was 120 , like your self I use stock front 14,
    And have used just the metal rear in both bikes 501- 701 , I will have to order the dirt tricks heard good reviews , thank you .
  12. OneManWolfPack

    OneManWolfPack Been here awhile

    Joined:
    May 21, 2018
    Oddometer:
    747
    Location:
    Calgary
    I run a 13:48 and swap to 14:48 if dual sporting. 118 link.

    Screenshot 2021-05-28 155951.png
  13. Doc Sarvis

    Doc Sarvis Advent-ia before dementia Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2015
    Oddometer:
    594
    Location:
    Carp Ca
    Quiz- which sentence is more correct? The two most abused words on ADV Rider.
    1) If your brakes break your helmet will dampen your fall.
    2) If your breaks brake your helmet will dampening your fall.
    OneManWolfPack and Baroquenride like this.
  14. new2adv

    new2adv Converting gas into wheelies since 1974

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2018
    Oddometer:
    1,311
    Location:
    Great White North
    Their both pretty brokan.
  15. Baroquenride

    Baroquenride Everyone dies, but not everyone truly lives.

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2011
    Oddometer:
    5,733
    Location:
    Clark Co, Wa
    1) :nod
    :thumb
  16. Comanche13

    Comanche13 Been here awhile Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2016
    Oddometer:
    254
    Location:
    Campbell River
    I don’t know wolfman not as impressive as Fasts charts , makes us Canadians look simple , just kidding thanks for the info , where do you get your bike parts back east , selection on Vancouver Island is slim , I have ordered majority of my parts from Ktmtwins , Rocky Mountain ATV , Slavens , Revzilla , and a dozen other companies for various parts , even with the duty , shipping , exchange rate , I have found the US companies to be on the ball on time ( except KTMtwins ) priced competitively usually cheaper , and very knowledgeable , I have tried Fortnine , and they do not come close to outfits like Revzilla , yes the US is a bigger market with a lot more bikes so it’s very difficult for Canadian companies to compete to get stock and cheaper prices , plus I like the fact that most the products I buy across the boarder are made in the US , I like to support local shops , they just do not have the selection , well get some riding in .
    Bitingdog likes this.
  17. OneManWolfPack

    OneManWolfPack Been here awhile

    Joined:
    May 21, 2018
    Oddometer:
    747
    Location:
    Calgary
    Hey it's just a gearing chart, it does not need to be complicated.... If you can get a setup that uses the same chain and can modify gearing that is a win. If you run two sets of wheels a little trick someone showed me was that flipping the adjuster blocks = 2 teeth of the rear sprocket. So if switching rear wheels with lets say a 46 with a 48 you simply flip the blocks for a quick install. I tend to use a static rear number (48) and swap countershafts though. I buy where the item I want is in stock and then for the best deal. As a Canuck this means: Fortnine, local Husky dealer = (Blackfoot direct online) and once in a blue moon Gnarly Parts. For US firms. RMATV for cheap tusk crap and Revzilla for boots etc. Sometimes I go direct and have good experiences with Giant Loop, HDB and Motominded. Shipping charges out of the states makes a lot of the Canadian options better (at least lately). You are in BC have our tried Gnarly Parts ?
  18. Comanche13

    Comanche13 Been here awhile Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2016
    Oddometer:
    254
    Location:
    Campbell River
    Thank you for the reply Wolfman , I have purchased parts from quite a number of places , and I stop by Gnarly, s from time to time , he is the western distributor for Goldyn Tire , and Nutec products so I have bought quite a bit from him , his shop is not very big , and half the time when I want something he does not have I t so I end up ordering from one of the American companies , because they have , a lot of inventory , , and you are right out west Blackfoot has a pretty good selection Better then Holeshot Motorsports maple ridge , I buy a lot local , I m a Pipeliner so I travel the three western provinces so there are not to many shops I have not been in , I bring my bike with me to work in the summer month , GP Cycles in Toronto I have had good luck with a few purchase there , I just find that Fortnine staff just does not know their products anyway my opinion , hope you have a great weekend .
  19. Gaup

    Gaup Adventurer

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2007
    Oddometer:
    34
    Location:
    Northen Sweden
    DSC_4405.JPG
    A little teaser from Sweden My FE 450 and by the way the WP 6500 cartridge works really good ...
    LANCIVPT, Jeremy K, Mikelb01 and 10 others like this.
  20. DLRuapuke

    DLRuapuke Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2008
    Oddometer:
    304
    Location:
    North of the South NZ
    Howdy
    I run my '16 FE450 with 48 / 52 and buzzy on road at 80kph = great on gravel fire roads etc.........
    Changed to 14 / 50 a few days back - slightly less buzzy at 90kph but less snap and go when you need it on gravel fire roads single...
    Not convinced - back to 14 / 52 me thinks

    Gazz