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If Loud Pipes Save Lives, then.....

Discussion in 'Electric Motorcycles' started by TheProphet, Jun 18, 2018.

  1. brgsprint

    brgsprint Long timer Supporter

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    I think some motorcycles are perpetually offensive.
  2. Monkeyshines

    Monkeyshines Long timer

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    You poor thing.
    Geoff likes this.
  3. brgsprint

    brgsprint Long timer Supporter

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    Actually, quite comfortable, thanks.
  4. voltsxamps

    voltsxamps Advolturer

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    ^ Best quote of the week
    roadpupp, Bar None and MJSfoto1956 like this.
  5. vintagerider

    vintagerider Long timer

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  6. Geoff

    Geoff Long timer

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    Whining about exhaust noise is more obnoxious than loud pipes.
  7. joker-b

    joker-b Here and Now

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    Late to the thread, but you DO know that cars and trucks play fake engine noise inside the cabin, right? Ford F-150 as an example.
    jsinclair likes this.
  8. Kamala

    Kamala Long timer Supporter

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    As a former 1st responder I can't recall ever hearing (no pun intended) anyone say I didn't hear the Motorcycle, pretty sure it was about 100% I didn't See The Motorcycle. Hi Viz saves lives!
  9. voltsxamps

    voltsxamps Advolturer

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    ^ Quoted for truth!

    As a motorcycle safety instructor, there is nothing in the curriculum that suggests being louder for safety (revving your engine, install louder pipes, riding at high rpm, etc).

    It does, however, suggest throughout the course to maintain visibility with proper lane positioning, wearing high visibility/retro reflective clothing and high visibility helmets, flashing your lights to alert, etc. as being seen is a constant challenge for drivers as most are less accustomed to looking for motorcycles and if they do see us, they often misjudge approach speed and distance. Riding defensively, maintaining visibility, and gearing up head to toe help minimize chances of injury or death.
  10. windmill

    windmill Long timer

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    No its not,
    One can choose to ignore "whining" as they choose. One is subject to loud pipes at any time, and place against their will.

    [ uhb-nok-shuhs ]

    adjective

    1. highly objectionable or offensive; odious:
    obnoxious behavior.

    2. annoying or objectionable due to being a showoff or attracting undue attention to oneself:
    an obnoxious little brat.
    Mykola and MJSfoto1956 like this.
  11. joker-b

    joker-b Here and Now

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    Loud pipes do no keep you safe. Their purpose is to be heard by other people with load pipes. Just human behavior. And, frankly, to annoy “those other people.”
    MJSfoto1956 likes this.
  12. twinrider

    twinrider Pass the catnip

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    As a motorcycle rider for the past 25 years in a place where lane-splitting is legal, sound matters as much as visibility when filtering. Car drivers are much more aware of bikes filtering when they can hear them coming as they tend to move over a bit or stop when about to change lanes. I see this as both a rider and driver. Personally I prefer quieter bikes, but I don't doubt the effectiveness of a loud pipe while lane-splitting.
  13. voltsxamps

    voltsxamps Advolturer

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    Drivers tend to be startled when they hear a loud bike approach suddenly when splitting lanes. I know I do when it’s me in the drivers seat. And just like motorcyclists, people tend to steer where they look. Last thing I want is a driver looking at me as they’re driving. I prefer they continue along as they were without moving left or right (as they often do as a result of trying to make room) and pass them with no fuss.

    California lane splitting law states to pass only when safe to do so. Revving a motorcycle as to say “make room for me to pass” makes motorcyclists look like jerks and no different than honking a car horn to tell drivers in front of them to make room so they can pass. It is a privilege, not a right, to lane split. If enough riders piss off drivers that out number us a thousand to one, they can very easily vote to not allow lane splitting, and out goes the likelihood of other states being able to make lane splitting legal.

    There are many in this forum and in California, including myself, that have legally lane split on their electric motorcycles for years without incident. Splitting too quickly or not using good judgment, with or without sound, is a major factor of increasing one’s chances of an incident. Nowhere in California Vehicle Code does it state to rev the engine or install louder pipes to increase safety.

    In addition to using prudent speed when splitting, CA DMV recommends to assume people in cars do not see you and to avoid blind spots in other vehicles, particularly large trucks. Concurrently, guidance on lane splitting is also provided by the DOT, OTS, CHP, and CMSP.

    https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/about/lane_splitting
    JohnnyWaffles and MJSfoto1956 like this.
  14. MJSfoto1956

    MJSfoto1956 Been here awhile

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    It takes obnoxious to know obnoxious. Geoff appears to speak from experience. :p
  15. wheresbaoskee

    wheresbaoskee Perpendicular to Everything

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    It is a privilege, not a right, to operate any motor vehicle - regardless of power source or number of wheels. One which is not revoked from those who would abuse it nearly often enough.
  16. twinrider

    twinrider Pass the catnip

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    I'm in Japan. Here drivers will usually pull over more to make room for bikes to pass when they hear them or simply leave a gap to begin with. I'm not talking about people revving their bikes to get through, just normal aftermarket exhausts (not straight pipes). Not sure why you, as a rider, would be shocked when hearing a loud bike while driving. It's not like thunder that comes out of nowhere, the sound progressively gets louder as they get closer.
  17. Goomicoo

    Goomicoo Rubber Cow

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    I have ridden my Zero electric through traffic here in LA Ca. I think I'm safer on it than on an ICE bike. I can hear everything around me. Makes me more aware of my surroundings. If someone in a SUV, on the phone, looking at their nav, blasting tunes, and doing their makeup can't see me. Loud pipe aren't going to make a difference.
  18. voltsxamps

    voltsxamps Advolturer

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    Japan is a beautiful country. I lived in Japan for two years and rode motorcycles there as well. Filtering to the front when traffic is stopped is the law and drivers will wave at foreigners who don’t know yet, to move their bikes to the front and away from their cars because if there is a collision, the car driver is assumed to be at fault as it is their culture and law to look out for the smaller vehicle. Also the speed limits are far slower and traffic is far worse, so one will typically progressively hear a bike coming up, however, spend some time in California where bikes pass you rapidly, and you’re already going 70 or so mph already, and you’ll agree it’s hard not to be startled in most cases, unless of course you saw them coming in your rear view mirrors - reinforcing the point that being visible is the key for others to be aware of your presence, not the excessive noise being made.

    I’ve been riding electric motorcycles since 2016 and lane split on the freeways and in town without issue. Drivers don’t know I’m there as I slip by them and I prefer it that way. It is MY RESPONSIBILITY as a motorcyclist to know when it’s safe to lane split and not the driver’s to know that I am about to do so. If a California Highway Patrol Officer observed me lane splitting in an unsafe manner, and there is a collision, it is MY fault, not the drivers.

    When I’m in my car and a motorcycle with loud pipes lane splits, by the time I hear them, they are almost adjacent to me and passing me already. Compared to all of the near silent cars around me, the sudden roar is startling and no it doesn’t make it any safer for the rider with the loud pipes. If anything, it gives the rider a false sense of security believing that startling drivers as they roll past makes them safer. Been riding in the State of California since 1997 and have had zero accidents and zero tickets, car or bike. Never had loud pipes and I average 10-12,000 miles ridden annually.

    If loud pipes actually added to a rider’s safety, every bike riding law enforcement officer globally would install louder pipes, yet not a single police department I know of does, not have I heard an officer express that they wished their exhaust was louder for their safety, because there’s no proof that louder pipes makes a rider safer. Visually, however, their bikes have contrasting colors, flashing lights, and reflective to be seen as that does. To put it another way, if noise was effective at increasing attention from a driver, why aren’t roadside warning signs equipped with noise making devices? Because it’s unnecessary, would be annoying, and adds no safety value. Being highly visible, reflective, with contrasting colors is what works.. just like they do on a motorcyclist.

    Statistics and studies around the world show that when a driver is questioned in a collision with a motorcyclist, their response is typically “I never saw them”. Ask a first responder or a paramedic about what they’ve heard. I personally know many that work in both fields, and the driver’s responses are typically “he came out of nowhere” etc.. studies and reports over decades support that being visible does far more in alerting others to your presence than an unnecessarily loud exhaust.

    The argument isn’t whether bikes shouldn’t make any sound at all.. I’m all for some sound being made.. it’s against being louder than necessary and the falsehood of believing that “loud pipes save lives”. Statistically, riders who are the least likely to be injured are highly visible, have taken rider safety courses, ride responsibility, wear protective gear, and make good decisions when on the road. One of those good decisions is not depending on their exhaust to keep them safe.
    joker-b and MJSfoto1956 like this.
  19. voltsxamps

    voltsxamps Advolturer

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    BE57D224-86F1-4B48-B56B-0C3227260B79.jpeg

    “if you’re relying on a loud motorcycle to keep you safe, you’re not riding defensive(ly) enough”

    Thought this person’s post had relevance to the topic. Came across by random chance while surfing vids and I agree.
    Peels and MJSfoto1956 like this.
  20. voltsxamps

    voltsxamps Advolturer

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