Ignition Barrel Buggered

Discussion in 'Dakar champion (950/990)' started by PaisaMed, Oct 29, 2019.

  1. PaisaMed

    PaisaMed Been here awhile

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    Mods, not sure where to put this thread and I searched for this topic but just found 10 year old threads. Feel free to move this topic if needed.

    I found a screw in my ignition of my KaTy Mary SMR by a would be thief, may his balls be blowtorched! I have carefully extracted the screw and now my key won't go all the way in. I'm sure the tumbler is buggered. So, I need to get this barrel out of the bike for repair or replacement or, I need to make it so the bike does not need a key to start and I will worry about security later. As it is parked now, the steering head is locked.

    Suggestions needed on how to proceed. 20191021_091202.jpg
    #1
  2. DiggerD

    DiggerD DougFir from SuperDuke Days

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    Quick hip shot before the coffee is taking full effect...in the am.
    But...your KTM tumbler can be replaced after you remove the anti-theft screws are removed that hold it in place.
    Been there, done that on my 04 950 KTM ADV, some years ago.
    Switch needed cleaning, non serviceable unit per KTM, but I cleaned it up none the less.
    Do it inside a bath tub with the drain taped close, ball bearing and springs will try to escape.
    Thinking I took the top triple clamp off the bike to get to the screws.
    Lot more KTM riders / viewers to be found in Orange Crush on this forum.

    You might just 86 the key tumblers if you are on the cheap.
    Who's to know that any key will work.
    #2
  3. PaisaMed

    PaisaMed Been here awhile

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    Digger, Thank you for that tip. And, yes, I'll check Orange Crush forum.

    I was actually thinking the same thing and that is I'll remove the key tumblers and I hope the barrel will just turn freely with my key in it. If I go the other way and re-key (change tumblers) then I will have to do the same new tumblers for the gas tank or travel with 2 keys which will prove to be an annoyance. So, I have to get the tumbler out of the bike which will probably be a challenge for me. You're saying that I have to remove the top triple clamp for that barrel removal? The steering is currently locked so I cant move the bike.
    #3
  4. Navin

    Navin Long timer

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    Maybe give the key a hammer tap, lightly if you do. See if it will sink in and turn. Might shoot some oil in there too before trying that.

    And only if you have at least two keys!
    #4
  5. DiggerD

    DiggerD DougFir from SuperDuke Days

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    To remove the key lock assembly from the triple clamp to work on it, (read disassemble lock) you will have to remove the two anti theft screws from the bottom of the top triple clamp.
    I think I drilled the screw heads off. No way to get a drill to the screwheads without pulling the triple clamp from the bike.

    I am going home for lunch and can look at my KTM 990 ADV.
    Should be close to the same as yours.
    I know I did not have to deal with my bike being locked to the frame....will look into that senerieo.
    #5
  6. DiggerD

    DiggerD DougFir from SuperDuke Days

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    So, went home at lunch and took a quick look.
    This I what I would do.
    Put the bike on a rear wheel paddock stand, weighting the front wheel on the ground.
    Remove the handle bars leaving all the levers and switch gear in place.
    Cushion your wind screen with a shipping blanket or equal and lay the handle bars up and over the wind screen out of the way. Maybe rope it down.
    Remove the top triple clamp,
    Drill the anti thief screws heads, leaving as long as possible to grip with a vice grip and repair the damage.
    Good luck with repairing the damaged switch lock.

    You can always buy new or used...and carry two keys..
    OR...….REMOVE ALL THE TUMBLERS,,,,SEAT, TANKS, IGNITION..never have to be worry about losing your keys on a trip again.:lol3
    Nice bike, the SM eh?
    Love my SuperDukes too...
    #6
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  7. PaisaMed

    PaisaMed Been here awhile

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    I think I'm going to try and tackle this job and I if I mess up then at least the season is over in Toronto and I'll get it fixed over the next few weeks.

    I have 3 keys for the bike so I think I'll first put some oil in the key hole and then put the key in and gently tap it down with a hammer and then see if it turns. If this fails, then I'll try and get the key out. If the key does not want to come out then I'll move on to removing the top triple and drilling out the security screws and getting access to the barrel where I'll take out the 6 wafers and then maybe it will be a keyless ignition. I guess, looking on the bright side, I get to use one of my 2 favourite tools in the box, the mighty hammer! Who knows, the vice grips ight even come in handy later on?

    Now, a question for the philosophers on this forum...if you see a bike running with a key in the ignition barrel, how do you know the key was needed to actually turn the barrel to the "on" position. Could it be that the ignition barrel is a convenient place to hold/store the key until such time as you need to unlock the gas cap?
    #7
  8. PaisaMed

    PaisaMed Been here awhile

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    I tapped the key into the hole with a small picture nail hammer and it almost goes all the way in but then the sound becomes very solid so I don't want to tap anymore. So, Top triple has to come off and I'll drill out the security screws holding the ignition barrel. I'll check some you tube vids tomorrow.
    #8
  9. DiggerD

    DiggerD DougFir from SuperDuke Days

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    Had a chat with a bud and another look at my bike when I got home.
    My bud said to look how the lock is set up.
    There is a pin in the lock that fits into a weldment hole in the frame which might restrict the top triple clamp from sliding off the forks.
    I would try to remove the top triple clamp off first like I was explaining in the previous post.
    There might be e-nuf wiggle room.
    If that does not work, I would raise the front of the bike with a bike lift using the center triple clamp pivot hole in the frame.
    Then take the wheel and forks off.
    That should free the top triple clamp e-nuf.
    #9
  10. PaisaMed

    PaisaMed Been here awhile

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    Yeah, at some point in The next week I'll try to remove the top triple to see if I can access the security screws. I looked at the triple bolts on the left side where the steering head is turned and locked and it might be tight it get a torx wrench in there. This is proving to be a royal pain the arse! The bike is no where an electricity plug if that would ever be needed and I can't get a trailer down into this garage because the ramp is a spiral down to P2. Also, did I mention the steering head is locked which is a good thing, thwarting the thieves as they instead stole the bike next to mine, a 690 duke and leaving my unicorn be!
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  11. DiggerD

    DiggerD DougFir from SuperDuke Days

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    Sounds like the lock design did its job.
    Time to buy a battery powered drill motor.
    Maybe find a better storage spot too.
    History repeats.
    #11
  12. PaisaMed

    PaisaMed Been here awhile

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    I thought I had better update this thread.

    I have loosened all the pinch bolts on the upper triple. Also, I removed the headlight and have found the plug to the ignition barrel. The problem is now, the triple doesn't even budge at all! It never did move even when all the pinch bolts were loosened. I'm fearing the worst in that, because the steering head is locked, the triple is locked in place. I can see the steering head locking bolt. I may be able to access the ignition barrel bolts with a drill but a question for the more knowledgeable wrenches is this...how am I'm going to get this steering bolt lock freed?
    #12
  13. DirtyADV

    DirtyADV Long timer

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    You need to undo the nut in the middle holding the triple clamp down also. And it's a pinch bolt on the middle also.

    Sliding the lower triple down some and I can't see an issue being able to remove the top even with lock engaged. But have not done that operation myself so might be wrong.

    /Johan
    #13
  14. Boatman

    Boatman Membership has it's privileges ;-) Supporter

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    I don't think you will be able to remove just the upper triple. If it's the same as as the SE, the lock pin goes into a barrel on the head when locked. That would require some lateral movement to undo. You are going to have to do more than just undo the pinch bolts. Support the bike and disassemble the front end,,,,, remove the wheel and then the forks. As Johan mentioned you will need to remove the nut in the center so the lower triple with the post can be removed from the bottom. Then you should be able to disengage the lock.
    #14
  15. Salzig

    Salzig Long timer

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    If you have enough room you can try to carve a slot in the bolt heads with a chisel and undo them with it.
    When I changed my triple clamp I remember they came off really easy.
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  16. mountaincadre

    mountaincadre Long timer

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    Agreed Salzig, when some little sh-ite tried to steal mine a couple of years ago I had the same problem, my solution was to remove wheel/forks and anything else that was "easy enough" to remove then slot screws with small hacksaw blade , after that they came out VERY easy.
    #16
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  17. PaisaMed

    PaisaMed Been here awhile

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    Boatman, agreed. I think I will have to remove the entire front end, wheel, forks, lower triple. What a PITA! So, with that being said, I will require a front end stand to lift the front end without any encumbrance on the forks.
    #17
  18. PaisaMed

    PaisaMed Been here awhile

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    Ignition barrel is out of the bike!
    But, not before having to use those lovely tools called the hammer, hacksaw, chisel, and vice grips!!
    Now I just have to get the tumbler out of the housing for repair and/or replacement. 20191128_084003.jpg 20191127_211441.jpg 20191127_211212.jpg 20191127_205154.jpg 20191127_205146.jpg
    #18
  19. PaisaMed

    PaisaMed Been here awhile

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    The reason I had to go all caveman on this bike was that with the steering locked the top triple can not move in an vertical direction. Also, it cannot move in an outward direction (toward the front tip of the front fender). There is only one option and that is to remove the two security bolts holding the ignition assembly. Now I probably could have been a little gentler but my patience has long gone as this attempted theft happened 2 months ago. Thankfully, I'm not a dentist!
    #19
  20. Boatman

    Boatman Membership has it's privileges ;-) Supporter

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    Hmmmm,,, did you drop the forks and pull the lower triple clamp? I'm quite certain you could have then just removed the upper triple with the lock and then be able to work on it at the bench.
    #20