Indian Scout FTR1200

Discussion in 'Road Warriors' started by cabanza, Nov 7, 2017.

  1. LuciferMutt

    LuciferMutt Rides slow bike slow

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    Fair enough. If the seat-to-peg relationship is unchanged, it's probably not a big deal. I think the bike LOOKS a lot better with 17" wheels and real street rubber frankly, but I might in the minority there.
  2. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades... Super Supporter

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    It only looks better if you didn't like street trackers. Those who like street trackers will likely prefer the old version. I liked the older one better and would have liked it even more, maybe bought one, had they put on a flat track replica tail, eliminated some of the electronic gimmicks to cut down some of the cost. Now they've virtually eliminated all the street tracker look - the original intent - except for the "tank" on it. They now have their version of a Ducati Monster. More or less a muscle naked bike.
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  3. OConnor

    OConnor Bad Juju

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    Indian probably heard all the people that wanted a Street Tracker but when they built it all those folks didn't back up the talk with cash. Now we have an Indian Monster to hit the somewhat larger market.
    I like the new version much better personally.
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  4. Mlazarus5388

    Mlazarus5388 Adventurer

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    I did my share....

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  5. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades... Super Supporter

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    That's the usual case - a lot of "demand" until the product comes out then the "demand" vaporizes or the manufacturer makes an error in design. Like the Honda Ascot 500 VT, the mistake - a 500 instead of a 750 and a slight bit bigger build. The FTR may have done better or worse with a true flat track replica tail if they had done it. Even with the 17s it would have looked a bit more flat track. Honda didn't commit to a good size engine FTR didn't commit to the full on street tracker and they didn't commit to the engine size. If it was a 750 they could have put on a bigger gas tank, possibly kept cost down a bit better with less gimmicks, and sold more.

    Sometimes the "demand" misses by a bit of time. The Transalp was a bit ahead of its time, in spite of the 80G/S being successful, the benefits weren't recognized and accepted yet. The Kaw W650 had more "Brit twin" than the Triumphs of the time, but the full on retro look for the twin wasn't there yet.

    But as we all know, hindsight is 20/20. I think Yamaha could have done a street tracker 700 from their FZ/MT/XSR, but they're not going to commit because of the hindsight of the Ascot and the FTR. They had a heck of a possible start with the Palhegyi DT07 street tracker and could have done something somewhat close with the XSR, but I think they believe the market isn't there. I, for one would buy a serious street track replica in a 750 size in a heartbeat if it was under $10,000. But I have to be totally honest, there probably aren't enough people like me who would actually do so.

    We will gain a bit more hindsight with the new version FTR, will it sell with 17s, shorter seat height (can't hurt), but small gas tank? Only the future will tell.
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  6. c_m_shooter

    c_m_shooter Ninja Warrior Supporter

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    The problem is probably people like you and me who want specific things at that price point. If they put that much into the design and execution, it isn't a price point bike anymore. If they have to price it at 15k, they know it has to be an open class bike like others at that price point, not a mid sized bike that appears underpowered when the mags do a shootout with 1000cc machines.
  7. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades... Super Supporter

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    I have the XSR and the basic chassis design could be street tracked by the factory so fast it would make one's head spin. Some bodywork - the seat/tail could snap right on where the OEM seat now fastens, some reshape of the tank and a stylized flat track number plate headlight nacelle and it's a street tracker. Could even go with spoked or cast 18/19 wheels to add to it. Bodywork could be a Yamaha Accessories package. The C-Racer seat/tail is only about $300, needing some light body work (sanding and primer filler) and paint to do the job for the seat/tail.

    Indian somewhat did that with the tail, but it wasn't quite the replica. Oversize the actual flat track tail/seat, don't try to make it two up (make that the accessory stuff) and add some 7x10" number plates that can double as bag supports, you're in business. But again how many would sell.
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  8. scudrunner82

    scudrunner82 combustion addict

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    I never really knew "street tracker" was a category, until the FTR came out. In my opinion, it would make an awful flat track bike, its way too heavy and the suspension is way too stiff. Not a whole lot of dirt in the DNA except the wheels and tires. That being said, I bought one because I thought it was absolutely gorgeous, and is a phenomenal STREET bike to ride. It was the first new motorcycle I just had to buy, in about 7 years, (since 2014 with my KTM 1190R).
    I'm really not sure the intent was to produce something dirt capable, so much as a street bike, with dirt track looks and style. That might be why it didn't sell that well. If Indian made it more dirt worthy, I wouldn't have been interested. Its great for short trips with my girl, medium trips solo, and a riot to ride every minute! I think they knocked it out of the park, but remains a niche bike, for a very specific buyer. Although the new version seems to be aiming to fix that, it makes me glad I got the original design.
    I feel the price reflects what you get in todays market, and if you get a leftover for a great price (got my S model for 10,999+tax) its a screaming bargain in the world of motorcycles.
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  9. Timps27

    Timps27 Just here for the beer. Supporter

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    It’s not a perfect bike, we’ve flogged the issues to death several times over. But I haven’t met a single person who owns one that doesn’t mention how much it makes them smile (aforementioned issues not withstanding). And I almost never make it through a stop without multiple people stopping by to admire and comment. I have no regerts as they say.
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  10. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades... Super Supporter

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    A street tracker is rather simple, people have been building them for years before the term was coined. Flat track fans simply want a bike that is a good faith replica of a flat tracker, not a racer and not an exact version. In the 70s there were a dozen bikes that looked like they just came off the track, rolling around the town where I lived. A friend built an XR900, putting a Sportster engine in an XR750 chassis, another reworked a Honda CB450 to look like a flat tracker, a couple built two stroke single Yamahas and Kawasakis to look like flat trackers. That was what a lot of flat track fans were hoping for from Indian, especially after seeing the concept bike.

    Street tracker looks like a flat tracker. Not dirt capable, not race ready, in the case of the FTR, not the displacement, just a bike that actually looks as if it came off the track. The 2019 FTR looked every bit the part up to the tail section that looked like it belonged on a muscle standard. Here is the original concept prototype:

    [​IMG]

    Short tail, no pretenses of a passenger or minimal at best, not something that would be purchased as an adventure bike. A street bike paying homage to the racer. Spartan. Kind of like the Honda CBR1000RR and 600RR Repsol replicas, they looked like what was on the track, but not all-in racers, especially the superbike racers.

    The new model is changing to sell, losing more of the street tracker look, but I can't blame Indian for doing so. They are in business to make money. I wouldn't be surprised to find that they absolutely intended to do the changes before the 2019 went on sale. They knew there are more muscle standard buyers out there than there are street tracker buyers. Probably the same reason it's a 1200 instead of a 750.


    I have to agree, a bike done well has people looking and looking. The FTR is one like that. You walk away, yet turn and look back and look again. There aren't a huge number of ones that do that for me. The Indian is one. The Honda Ascot VT500 twin is another, I'd say a Ducati 916 does it too. And for me my XSR does it, of course it isn't quite the standard version anymore either. But for me, the closer the bike looks to a flat tracker the more I like it. Similar with dual sports, the closer to an MXer it looks, the more I like them.
  11. alekkas

    alekkas Long timer

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    I am now an older man. But I was once a younger man. I would trade someone's version of legit tracker for a short two up ride to ones place any evening.

    I am now a married man. I would trade ones version of a legit tracker to have my wife hop on the back for a short ride any day.

    everyone know this is not a tourer. We have one of those. But a short two up ride has made my life pleasant for many decades and for many reasons.

    there are other options for those wanting to complain about the seat.
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  12. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades... Super Supporter

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    Gotta say I'm an older man and I would love to ride a legit tracker on a short track and a half mile any time I could. I have an SR500 that is near completion and essentially a flat track bike with lights. There is a club north of me that has track days on their short track and I think a half mile as well. I'm dreaming and hoping...

    Everyone should have a couple bikes for a couple purposes. My wife doesn't really enjoy riding so mine are solo. One is the street bike the other is a dual sport 250 and that makes me happy. Here's to all of you being happy. :beer
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  13. Ogre_fl

    Ogre_fl Long timer

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    Well, the new "lower" version does seem a little more cramped.
    I think the seat may be lower, and the pegs are different but not remarkably higher.
    It is an absolute blast to ride. MUCH more fun than the "meh" Pan America I rode the same day.

    2021-04-30 22.41.21.png
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  14. Ogre_fl

    Ogre_fl Long timer

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    My V1000 with buell drop pegs for comparison

    2021-04-30 22.45.52.png
  15. Timps27

    Timps27 Just here for the beer. Supporter

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    There is no change to the rider triangle, it is identical to the 2019. The only exterior changes are 17” rims and reduced suspension travel, the result of both being the lowering of the seat height and accompanying suspension geometry changes.
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  16. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades... Super Supporter

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    Drop pegs are not that costly if you go with the low buck ebay version. I haven't ridden son-in-law's FTR, but the pegs looked totally wrong. He confirmed the angle of them wasn't too good for him and he replaced them with some high buck cool looking ones that were less slippery and flat so he can position his foot easier. They weren't really dropped pegs, but looked a shade lower. Maybe he will comment on them here.
  17. JohnnyWaffles

    JohnnyWaffles Been here awhile

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    Agreed. The misinformation is from prospective buyers merely looking at seat height, when footpeg-to-seat distance is actually what matters for a tall individual (I'm 6'4"). The frame would've been reworked if that changed.
  18. LuciferMutt

    LuciferMutt Rides slow bike slow

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    :lol3 I dare you to go post that in the pan america thread.
  19. Timps27

    Timps27 Just here for the beer. Supporter

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    That is an objective fact, the FTR just is more fun to ride. The PA is not made to be “fun to ride” in the same way the FTR is, it’s made to eat highway miles comfortably, carry a bunch of crap, and then take all of it off-road passably.

    It’s like saying a Mustang is more fun to drive than an Excursion. It’s just a fact of what they were designed to do.
  20. Ogre_fl

    Ogre_fl Long timer

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    I had been tempted to post my impressions, but they are quite opposite to most being posted right now.
    I was very underwhelmed by the Pan Am, particularly its motor.
    Its dead in the lower range.
    It is quite smooth at speed though, where the FTR is a bit vibey.

    The FTR motor is fun and engaging bottom to top.
    I was wishing the PA motor had more of the characteristics of the FTRs.
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