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Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by blk-betty, Apr 6, 2012.
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Everyone knows the best defense is a good offence...
Someone comes in his lane, he leans into and off with their head.......oh, wait, it's Harley.......never mind.
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ATGATT for certain. By 71 I've lived a half decent life, ridden with and without gear, a half million miles, and thankfully only been down once and that was in the desert, crazy stuff. To die is easy, none of us is getting out alive, the problem is living and the prospect of being in a vegetative state is not something I or anyone that I know has any interest in. I expect most can afford the gear and make their own decisions. Enjoy your ride, stay alert, be aware of what's around you, and for the most part you'll be just fine. Cheers, R
Not sure if I've commented before .
My avatar shows my normal riding kit, it includes the cane I need to walk with after a "fatal" Moto collision in 2008 where my spine was shattered, my neck broken, three holes punched in my skull, so on .
In 2017 I was out riding (yes, I'd stupid or addicted, choose one) and cashed again breaking both knees and every bone in my left hand & wrist as I snapped off the end of the left arm bone .
I'm only alive because I was kitted out .
I still ride and am waiting for Honda to release the new CT125 bike to buy one and maybe let go of my other Motos because I'm old and can't ride 'em all as they say .
Safety kit is very important .
I rode through Montana once, no helmet law there. Guys riding with no helmet, t-shirts, shorts. I realized that in that state the pavement is much softer.
I don't think ATGATT is overrated at all. Anything can happen on the street when you're constantly surrounded by big hunks of sheet metal, many of which being operated by idiots who don't pay attention. I almost got killed on what was supposed to be a simple everyday ride leaving work on a 45 mph road when an idiot cager didn't see me and pulled out in front of me trying to make a left turn. The resulting crash broke numerous bones, left me with 2 punctured lungs and a spinal cord injury (I am now a paraplegic). Looking back I find this somewhat ironic, since prior to the incident I had numerous crashes on the race track, some at high speed, and walked away unscathed from all of them. I would have never thought before to go out in full leathers, back protector etc. on the street like I did on the race track, but now, I understand the people who do. I always wear a helmet, so thankfully my brain is intact, but the mesh jacket and jeans I was wearing clearly wasn't enough. Would full leathers and a back protector have prevented my injuries? I'll never know, but it certainly doesn't hurt to be "overdressed" for the occasion should a disastrous situation arise, which could be at any time, any place.
I started riding on the back of a Vespa in the mid 60's and of course, no helmets. We never went more than a few miles and there were way less cars on the road, no cell phones, etc.
Now, at 70 I ride ATTGATT. My only compromise, if you want to get picky, is my modular helmet.
I can think of a million reasons to wear it. One however ISN'T so that I don't have to ride like I'm invisible or that I can take more risks because of it.
If you want to be fair to your self and self-reasoning, and your loved ones who should be considered when you saddle up, go to a local Traumatic Brain Injury group's meeting nearby, there is one close most probably, especially after TBI being declared the signature injury of the Iraq war. You will learn what little it takes to achieve a TBI.
The woman who ran our local group slipped on her driveway, hit her head, lost her sense of taste and ability to complete the tasks at work she'd been excellent at before the fall.
The inside of our skull is sharp with bony spurs that when the brain gets knocked digs into our gray matter, and causes bleeding, swelling and sometimes death.
It does not have to be a headline accident news item to do irreparable damage to a life.
I too have jumped on with shorts and shoes to go a mile around the block for a test ride, with heightened awareness and slow speed, but I consider doing that test ride with my next ATGATT adventure going for oysters. Perhaps now with Coronavirus lockdown it is more tempting to ride naked for short fun putts, but if you have deer, dogs, children, or other chaotic creatures in your path it can happen too quickly and change your plans forever. And remember if you have a spouse, or dependent children you really don't ride alone.
I'll take a concussion over having my brains spilled out on the ground, thanks.
1st post, I think. I learned a lesson about proper tire beading the hard way coming back from Alaska in 2001. I was on a BMW R100 Paris-Dakar front tire went immediately flat, speed wobble ensued and I'm sliding down the highway in my Aerostich. The suit has some road rash and I ended up with a dime sized strawberry on my elbow. I ride ATGATT 90% of the time.
My first real crash was on my Honda CB1000F. Left the driveway a little too exuberantly on a cold December day, the front end came up just enough to cause an unrecoverable tank slapper. I crashed face first onto St. Rt. 202. It happened about a hundred yards from my house. My son heard the crash. I came to looking up at my son having a little disagreement with a motorist who was upset that I was blocking his way. In hindsight, that was my first "fast" bike. I had never done a wheelie before in my life, still don't do them, but application of the rear brake would likely have saved me from what was just an embarrassing mishap (and a slight concussion). My full face helmet saved me from what would have been a stay at the hospital and some fairly extensive facial and dental surgery. So, wear your HD DOT half helmet in the firm assurance that should your face meet the pavement, Darwin wins again, or at least leaves you with a reminder of what you should have put on before you left the house.
ATGATT all the time!
Most people think, "My body. My choice." That is one of the most selfish statements anyone can make. When you go down after making the choice to wear reduced gear or a crappy helmet, you are really saying, you do not mind that your family, friends, healthcare system, etc. need to support you for potentially the rest of your life.
I wear the gear because I want to reduce or prevent any injury to myself. Crashing hurts when in the gear. I don't want to know how bad it hurts when not in the gear. Just as important (or more), I don't want my wife to have to change her life because I was selfish, stupid or lazy.
Biking is not comfortable. It was not meant to be. Suck it up and wear the gear...unless you don't care about your friends and family.
I agree with everything you said in this post except about helmets. I always wear one because one, it’s the law in my state, and two without one it’s just too risky for me. Any fall even at low speed could crack my head like a walnut. It feels good to not wear it but that’s just a little too much adrenaline for me. One time on a cross country trip I was riding through a state out west with no helmet law. I took off my helmet for a couple of miles and it felt great but it was scary as f*ck too.
every other injury that I could sustain from not wearing ATGATT is worth the risk when balanced against the fun and convenience.
So, if for me, situation dictates. As you said a quick trip to the corner store, wear what you want. It really comes down to its you, no one else. I do hate people telling me what I should and shouldn't do. Come and pay all my bills and I will do as you say. You want to have a civil discussion, then cool, I will listen.
I got no issues with your statement.
I'm 73 and started riding at 17. I used to ride dirt bikes with just a 3/4 lid and jean jacket & pants. Going down in dirt hurts way less than asphalt! A few cuts and bruises were worst case. I ride a sport-tourer 'spirited' and wear ATGATT now. In the past 4 years (~70000 mi) I've low-sided 3 times, high-sided once, and T-boned a deer sending me over the bars. I sustained bruises on my hips and ripped up a couple sets of armored gear in all those get-offs - including shredded gloves. I was sore for a couple days after each but the only real damage was to my wallet for replacement gear and bike fixes.
On a casual group ride last year a noob wearing only helmet and jeans low-sided and blew his spleen. Not fun waiting for meat wagon when you could be enjoying the rest of the ride!
Like many have already said, it's your body, defend it however you wish. But please don't join my rides without proper gear!
I understand the sentiment, but your logic has flaws - the biggest, using your logic, is that (paraphrasing)"not using ATGATT is selfish, because of the danger". With THIS logic, you should stop riding all together, because we all know this is a dangerous activity - so STOP BEING SELFISH! This is not an all or nothing game we are playing, not black and white, despite your framing of the idea. We live in a grey world.
I actually feel more comfortable riding when suited up. So I ride more at ease with the right gear, shouldn’t make a difference but it does?