Is older Africa CRF1000 built better than CRF1100? Let's bust the myth together or find the truth.

Discussion in 'Japanese polycylindered adventure bikes' started by hammerun, Jul 24, 2020.

  1. hammerun

    hammerun Secret Eleventh Commandment - never fear.

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    Hello mates,

    I recently got on one very evil screaming post on FB regarding new Honda CRF1100L Africa Twin being build not as good as older CRF1000L by far. The writer claims to own both bikes CRF1000 and CRF1100, and states that he put 2020 on sale after comparison.

    As the one, who upgraded his older 2016 AT to 2020 model, I want you to help me to find truth.

    Here is the content of the post (translated from language other than English):
    QUOTE

    9 REASONS FOR AFRICA TWIN CRF 1000 MOTORCYCLE BETTER THAN AFRICA TWIN CRF 1100…!

    1. ENGINE - Africa Twin CRF 1100 engine is disposable (I believe meaning non-reparable), the sleeves (probably talking about cylinder liners) of which are cast with a block, which is the cheapest "Chinese" solution for one of the most expensive motorcycles in its class !!!; (Africa Twin CRF 1000 - comes with a serviceable engine with steel sleeves and two repair sizes).

    2. ALUMINUM SUB-FRAME - Africa Twin CRF 1100 is attached to the frame on 4 bolts - with a horizontal impact (side fall on a hard pannier) - it is guaranteed to break in half and you will not go anywhere, as Honda frankly says, imagine the price for this subframe is $ 1,200; (Africa Twin CRF 1000 - comes with a solid welded sub-frame of tubular type with vertical and horizontal rigidity - at any fall with the sub-frame nothing happens, and if something happens everything is easily solved by welding;

    3. FRAME - Africa Twin CRF 1100 - is a disposable structure from which the manufacturer stole all the metal, and set himself the task to make sure that in case of any fall, the owner of the new Africa Twin CRF 1100 - just threw the motorcycle on scrap metal !!! This includes reducing the thickness of the metal of the steering column (twice), reducing the metal on the front bracket of the shank and what is just shocking to me - the complete lack of horizontal rigidity of the diagonals of the upper ridge of the half-duplex frame (Honda - you went crazy round-the-world trips ???).
    (Africa Twin CRF 1000 - everything is very good with the frame, so good that there is no similar heavy tour enduro in the world with a full-fledged half-duplex cross-enduro frame).

    4. Swing-arm - Africa Twin CRF 1100 - is a cheap shit welded from 5 separate parts in comparison with a solid cast swing-arm on Africa Twin CRF 1000;

    5. Wheels - Africa Twin CRF 1100 - is a one-time good shit, which after the first serious hit will have to be thrown away and the motorcycle will not be able to go further, the price of the disc is 3000 US dollars, in addition, the outside rim (holding pard of the rim) is thinner than the BMW GS 1250 on the whole - 3 mm, Honda - well, you have become worse than those that in principle can not be made worse! However, you managed it Honda!

    6. MULTIMEDIA - Africa Twin CRF 1100 is a dangerous device that the manufacturer must PROHIBIT immediately !!! I do not understand which of the engineers came up with the idea to make a motorcycle, where the multimedia and navigation system works only if you have a headset or headphones in your ears ??? In my opinion, riding a motorcycle with headphones is absolutely unacceptable and dangerous! It seems that your goal was to kill more people when making this motorcycle and it is not an impression, because the monitor does not light up until the driver presses the Enter button indicating that he takes responsibility for the fact that Honda made rubbish to which need to distract the driver (it's all under the guise of new technology) well, you're just out of your mind Honda…!

    7. CHEAP MATERIAL - Africa Twin CRF 1100 - compared to the Africa Twin CRF 1000, the 2020 motorcycle has saved on everything from small things like rotating lights from the CRF 250 Rally to very serious design changes.

    8. COOLING SYSTEM - Africa Twin CRF 1100 is designed to overload the engine to the maximum temperature! Honda increased piston stroke from 75.1 mm on Africa Twin CRF 1000 to 81.5 mm on Africa Twin CRF 1100 (WITHOUT DESIGNING CYLINDER UNIT AND WATER SHIRT), thus increasing the plane of the lower part of the sleeve (cylinder liner), which is beyond the bag increase by 1/10 of the share of cooling in the oil bath, because the lower recess of the sleeves made them inaccessible to the coolant! Well, here Honda did not stop, thinking what to do, even worse, that this shit just broke slipping in the swamp and did not come up with anything worse than just stupidly close the return air from the radiators, leaving only a hole for fans that almost never stop running unlike Africa Twin CRF 1000 - in which fans almost never turn on!

    9. FASTENING SYSTEM Africa Twin CRF 1100 is designed by addicts who have saved on the most important parts of the motorcycle, it is a reduction in the diameter and size of the bolts of the upper, lower traverse (triple clamp), front wheel axle, engine mount, etc.! Everything is very cheap, unprofessional and irresponsible, unlike the Africa Twin CRF 1000.

    As the owner of two motorcycles Africa Twin CRF 1000 and Africa Twin CRF 1100 Adventure Sports (the latter has already been sold) I can say that Africa Twin 2020 is a complete intrigue in a good wrapper priced at 20,000+ US dollars, whose client Honda sends nah ( ..y, giving this junk 1 (one) year warranty (in country of writer's origin) !!! In fact, Africa Twin 2020 is not worth 1/3 of the funds that Africa Twin CRF 1000 costs.

    Honda, Africa Twin RD-07, CRF 1000 L - people were choosing for being the best in the world in the RELIABLE category, everyone knew that this is a machine that is always able to show itself and prove that it is better ..
    At that point, Honda turned into a company that started making expensive, cheap, lonely shit!

    UNQUOTE

    Sorry for crappy translation.

    Honestly I personally disagree with at least half of above over-emotional write-up, I don't think than genius Honda's engineers suddenly became dummies, but some other points worth discussion.
    #1
  2. PhaseShifter

    PhaseShifter Been here awhile

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    The new order in Japanese engineering, shit in = shit out !
    #2
  3. Motogasoline

    Motogasoline Been here awhile

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    I would prefer a removable subframe. Didnt triumph 900 tiger just get a removable subframe as well? The thickness around the steering stem might be an issue but there may be a lot of meat in the heart of thay stem. . The 1100 swingarm looks more dirtbikish. I like. Who cares about the rest?
    #3
  4. Veetwin

    Veetwin Been here awhile

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    There are some very strange people about!

    I've had every incarnation of Africa Twin and I've not had one fall apart between my legs yet including my 2020. If Honda have changed production techniques and different metals for a new model so be it, I'll report back if my bike falls apart.
    #4
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  5. pepebayeta

    pepebayeta Been here awhile

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    I can't say much about the 2020 as I have only seen pictures of it. But I'm not very happy with my 2018 ATAS.
    I wouldn't say the materials used to build the bikes are bad quality. IMO, the problem comes with modern motor vehicle build system. Every part is designed to work more or less well. But also to make it difficult, time consuming and expensive to service and repair.
    IMO, the base design of both bikes is just not good.
    #5
  6. William Wolfen

    William Wolfen DR Guy

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    Well, they had to do something if they wanted to make it lighter...
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  7. Motociclo

    Motociclo Long timer Supporter

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    One of vthe biggest loads of crap i have read to date.
    Each one of those points is crap.
    If one doesn't like it, don't buy it.
    I don't go much on KTM and Husqvarnas, not about to waste time ragging on them.
    If ole fruit is so sure of design, get some investment, engineers and go build uour own.
    First class crap.
    #7
  8. RoyQ

    RoyQ Long timer

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    My 2017 DCT has been a stellar motorcycle. Yea the water pump drips a drop or three since day one and now the stator grommet weeps A little oil. But she’s rock solid and at 17,700 miles I ain’t looked at nothing on it but the gas cap opening and a couple a oil changes.

    Basically it’s been a Honda!

    And I don’t do Facebook, probably why my bikes been so good.....
    #8
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  9. twinrider

    twinrider Pass the catnip

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    The OP listed a point by point objective comparison of how the quality is down compared to the previous gen AT. Not sure why you're taking such offense about it. Honda's specialty these days is figuring out how to build its bikes as cheaply as possible to maximize profits and it seems like it succeeded once again.

    My 16 AT was the most problem-plagued bike I've owned. In the two years I owned it the DCT broke as did the fuel pump, headlight switch gear and idle control valve. Also suffered from intermittent stalling that Honda couldn't fix. Dealer finally bought it back.
    #9
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  10. Motociclo

    Motociclo Long timer Supporter

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    No offense taken.
    Just giving my objective point on what was written. As i said it is first class crap.
    Your possibly one of a few that has had got a lemon AT, would expect criticism from you. I think ole fruits comments/points are nonsense. Not like the bike let him down.
    Just crying in his milk as he thinks quality is down.
    There are some things on the regular AT that could have been designed and executed better. The adv sport is in the same boat.
    #10
  11. twinrider

    twinrider Pass the catnip

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    But he’s actually sticking up for the pre-2020 AT and making it sound like an engineering masterpiece. Almost makes me want to buy another. :D
    #11
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  12. BygDaddee

    BygDaddee Where do I get a pie

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    The only thing I would say as someone who has not owned either and never even owned a Honda but never have discounted owning an AT one day is

    Honda were onto a good thing with the 1000 AT, price, features, reliability, the complete package, nice bike.

    but the sales of the 1100 are reflecting they’ve moved into no mans land with it, its backfired.

    i think the development gang will be sitting back saying “what have we done”, with their bosses looking down upon them

    they certainly opened the door for the Tenere 700 (not saying its better) and didn't fill the gap with a Transalp 7xx.
    Maybe it will come
    #12
  13. Veetwin

    Veetwin Been here awhile

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    I had a good look round the T7, to me it's a complete dogs dinner in design, but then I'm a Honda fanboy with not much Love of Yamaha's although I do still own my old YBR250.
    #13
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  14. vgreno2000

    vgreno2000 vgreno2000

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    Same thing for me, horrible susspensión, brakes and tube-tires, never looking back.
    I’ve sold the AT and now I’m the happy owner of a KTM 790 Adv R, except on long trips confort everithing else is better
    #14
  15. Fiftyfatponies

    Fiftyfatponies Been here awhile

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    I don't have any of the bikes but still read the whole thing drinking my morning coffe.

    A few things crossed my mind.

    A swingarm that is welded from different pieces is probably more expensive to make than one that is cast is one peice. You can put the strength where it's needed and keep the weight down. So, not cheap shit...

    A bolted on aluminium subframe is likely more expensive than a welded on steel and much lighter at the same strength. And i rather have the alternative to replace the subframe compared to bending, cutting, welding. A welded subframe in heavy steel is cheap shit to me.

    Can't say anything about the other stuff but i suppose that he had a few frames to test to breaking points, cut them up to check the thickness and analyze the materials...
    #15
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  16. sanvara

    sanvara Been here awhile

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    I tried both africa rwin 2016 and 2020; both bikes seemed to me great and good quality; I also tried yamaha tenere 700 and i didnt like; quality is also much lower than honda (price too) I was thinking of changing my supertenere with honda at 2020 and even though I think honda is a great bike, I have deceided not to do the change; yamaha supertenere is also a grat bike
    #16
  17. William Wolfen

    William Wolfen DR Guy

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    The mistake of the 1100 is the price going up. The 1000 was a lot of bike at $13,000. Not so much the 1100 at $20,000. To much competition from established players in that price segment.
    #17
  18. windowto

    windowto Long timer

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    Points are interesting observations, but, mostly, unproven. However, I tend to agree on the cooling. In the CRF1000 the cooling is great and I never feel hot air on my knees. Actually the air is, kinda, directed to the sides and forward, when the fan is finally coming on. Not sure why they would close up so much in the back of the radiators. Never rode the 1100, but heard reports (all, Youtube, of course:)) of fan coming on much more often and the engine heating the rider....

    All speculation on my part
    #18
  19. Tytan

    Tytan Been here awhile

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    I have a 2016 AT manual with 30Kms it went back to the dealer once for a recall on the center stand circlip so I can’t complain about warranty issues or build quality. Being an early first year model I was concerned about first year problems but so far so good and if I could go back in time I would buy it again.

    IMHO the 2020 models don’t offer enough for me to consider upgrading I’m not a tech nerd so that stuff doesn’t appeal to me at all in fact I prefer not to have it as it’s more stuff that could give problems as the bike ages. If I had to buy now I would take a leftover 2018 or 2019 and save some cash.
    #19
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  20. wingnutx

    wingnutx n00b

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    I guess there's an advantage to being a poor and buying a used 2016.
    #20