Is that an XT600? No way!

Discussion in 'Some Assembly Required' started by Battletoads, Mar 10, 2017.

  1. OzCRU

    OzCRU Been here awhile

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    Well - I think many (including myself) have dreamed about this before but I'm not aware (that I can recall) of someone getting this far as successfully on a rear swing arm swap for an XT600 - Well done! :clap
    I'm very interested in precisely what you have done.
    So is it an SX swing arm with an EXC shock & 15mm EXC pivot bolt? Did you investigate other versions & rule them out for any reason - ie did you discover a list of swing arms that you thought might work before settling on this one.
    Did you have to cut & reweld the lower shock mount to centre it or have you done something else?
    Did you or will you make bushes for the pivot bolt or will you do something else?
    Can you take some more close up pictures of these things & perhaps list a little more info on the mods you've done please? :y0!
    Sorry for all the questions - I am VERY interested, please share more details as I'm sure that there will be others who will search the ADV thumper threads looking for this kind of thing - just as I came across yours!! Excellent work :clap
    Thanks so much for keeping this updated!
    #21
  2. Battletoads

    Battletoads Adventurer

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    Main reson for using ktm sx/exc:
    1- ALL sx/exc 125 to 530 uses the same messurments for rear wheel form about 1990 to 2013 (im not 100% on the years, but it's ALOT)
    So this would give me good chances at finding a rim, 17" 18" and 19" all use the same hub. And a bunch of husabergs also use the same, idk the years. Worst case, the axel would be the same but i would need other spacers.

    2- swingarms did change alittle over the years, but the pivot and shock mount was the same for almost all of them. And the ktm swingarm being 10mm narrower the the xt swingarm combined with the narrow xt pivot engine mount i knew it would fit one way or another :p

    3- no linkage, just a direct mounted shock, makes for a easy mount, not needing to play around with the linkage mount, this also makes it lighter :)

    4- same as 1, a wide range of shocks will fit right on to the swingarm.

    5- due to the long time usage for the ktm parts, getting brand new stuff like chainguides, rollers, sprockets, brushes, bearings, etc will still be easy and be for sale all over ebay and local shops.

    6- I like orange

    Lower shockmount, as for this swingarm the mount is alittle to the left from the center (and for most of the sx/exc i think) , BUT so is the stock xt 600 shock (for the 600e 3tb atleast) but it's not to easy to see due to all the rubber,air filter and stuff + the xt swingarm is wider and so is the xt 17" wheel. So for the naked eye it looks senter but if you look closer it's not :p

    The 2002sx pivot was about 10mm to short for a clean fit, so im grinding down the stock nut and weelding on a new one, as for the bushes? Im welding in some new metal into the frame with a 15mm hole, and using the ktm pivot. This is just the easy way for me, as i have a welder :p but if it was possible id just get some new bushes for the swingarm to fit the 16mm xt pivot. But this would mean getting custom parts. Now i can just use ktm parts when they where out (this being a enduro bike that takes alot of punishment) id rather have easy accses to new bushes.

    Edit: im prob gonna change the shockmount on the frame, i talked to my local ktm dealer and he gave me this long speach about the importance of the swingarm angle@ tracktion and suspention and google comfirmed his shit. It WOULD kinda work like this for road use and whatnot, but for offroad and tracks it would not. And my goal is to make the xt better, and not just "meh"

    Sorry for crappy english, I have dyslexia and i'm from Norway. I know this ofthen makes me sound like a retard :p

    Pics: plates with 15mm hole, this will work as a spacer due to the 10mm narrower swingarm and change the pivot holes from 16 to 15mm
    And the grinded down sx pivot, i dont have a before pic but im sure google doed

    Attached Files:

    #22
  3. Battletoads

    Battletoads Adventurer

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    So i had to relocate the rear shock, so this is how it is now :dllama:

    Attached Files:

    #23
  4. mtothef

    mtothef Been here awhile

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    Ohhh, some of us have tried it... Not for the faint of heart! Here's my project from a few years back - grafting a '91 e-start XT motor into an 8 frame, then hacking a YZ426 swingarm and rear suspension into place, and adding the front end of a KX500. It's about time to redo the front end again, ditch the big dumb headlight and maybe go with a nice set of DR400 forks.

    bigXT.jpg
    #24
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  5. OzCRU

    OzCRU Been here awhile

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    Now that you remind me, I had seen yours before. (Sorry - I had forgotten about it.) So yes obviously 'been done before'. Would be interesting to compare the frame differences between 80's & 90's. I have a 90's frame like battletoads, but I'm not as keen to be as aggressive (yet) with the frame mods, but still interested in seeing what things can be slotted together.
    #25
  6. mtothef

    mtothef Been here awhile

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    There's a big difference between the earlier frames (mine's an 87) and the later, starting with the 90-91 models. In the US at least, the e-start motor showed up in an entirely new frame very similar to battletoads' frame, with the muffler being an integral part of the right side subframe. Ditching the muffler on those bikes will eventually cause the whole seat and rear frame to sag toward the right side of the bike, especially if it gets ridden off-road. Ask me how I know. So, with those later frames, it's a good idea to either build some struts on the right side where the muffler used to be, or hack the whole old subframe off and slap in a new one. Aside from that, using the KTM swingarm and linkless shock eliminates SO MANY headaches, not the least of which is figuring how how the hell to build an airbox around a shock, since the shock is offset a helpful amount.
    #26
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  7. OzCRU

    OzCRU Been here awhile

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    Yes - Excellent points.
    I have replaced my stock exhaust with a titanium GSXR one & made a strut to replace that section of the support for the rear frame. I've wondered about lopping it all off & swapping for a bolt on TT rear triangle of late 90's vintage, still contemplating this.
    Going the KTM swingarm & shock certainly does seem simpler, & yet I'm not yet ready to go to the level of frame mod to line up the shock with the correct angles required since the top mount isn't in the right place as evidenced by Battletoads photo above. More to ponder. Also looking into single Keihin MX carb & 1 - 2 Manifold as I've commented elsewhere, so airbox mod will be factored into this too.
    BTW - love the side stand!
    #27
  8. mtothef

    mtothef Been here awhile

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    Sorry for the derail, battletoads!

    There will be top shock mount shenanigans needed however you slice it. I had to fabricate an entire new top shock mount (and they need to be very carefully overbuilt into the frame given how much load they see), as well as lower link mounts on the frame. At least with the KTM shock/swingarm, that lower mount shitshow can be avoided. I would highly recommend a single carb conversion if it can fit. That dual carb, single bowl stock thing is the bane of my existence. To do anything with the jetting on my bike right now, I have to basically disassemble the airbox and remove the carb, it is a total pain in the ass. And, if you are going to the trouble of fabricating a new airbox, it will be way less hassle with only one carb inlet as opposed to two...
    #28
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  9. MATTY

    MATTY BORDER RAIDER

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    If you had posted this reply 6 months ago, i would have been 100% behind every word of what you say.
    But having removed the airbox on a EN500 and gone for pods which eventualy worked but i ended up going over to a home made mild steel airbox which runs better than stock now, But this unrelated experience to the xt600 carb issues i had at the time made me seriously rething converting to single carb on my xt600.
    Eventualy solving the YDIS woes i can honestly say, stick with the YDIS it is a faff i agree but once you get it sorted out you will be fine with it, they give reasonable performance in their kind of twin progressive carb choke principle and economy is good too, persevere with it, spend your time on more productive modifications, getting bogged down with carb issues re jetting getting performance back everywhere in the rev range is hard work for anybody, putting right whats there on the xt600 is what i advise .
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  10. OzCRU

    OzCRU Been here awhile

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    Thanks guys. Good points.
    Apologies too @Battletoads but appreciate your work that has brought about these thoughts.
    How is your bike going, can we have an update on the new rear end, is it perfect now?
    Would you be prepared to share what you learnt about the specific angle required to make the KTM shock work best & how to achieve that on the XT?
    Thanks heaps!
    #30
  11. Battletoads

    Battletoads Adventurer

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    No worries, the more we learn the better :p

    Tbh i have been gone for work 14days now, so there has been a lil stop in the project. But i paintet the welds and what not b4 i left and was juuust about to try fitting the crf pumper carb. I will post some fresh photos of what i manage to produce later this week i think :)

    Attached Files:

    #31
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  12. OzCRU

    OzCRU Been here awhile

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    Looking Good!
    Another advantage of the KTM setup seems to have been to give you more space behind the Raptor manifold which otherwise pushes the carb back too far & interferes with the air intake.
    Would be good to see more closeups like this as you go along.
    Thanks again for sharing.
    #32
  13. Battletoads

    Battletoads Adventurer

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    Yes that is true :) I still need to cut more of the frame to clear the carb it self, i think it will be a tight fit tho, but air filter wil be no problem . Thi g im gonna use "ramair" pod filter from U.K.
    Will do my best ;)
    #33
  14. OzCRU

    OzCRU Been here awhile

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    Looking forward to seeing this as you work on it. In your photo showing the top shock mount, you can see the left side case with the electric start housing, but the starter motor is removed. Will you be fitting the starter back in or is it too tight a fit at present with the planned FCR?
    Are you able to angle the carb down slightly where it goes into the manifold? Maybe by cutting a thin wedge out & then reweld it so you dont have to cut the frame?
    Did you add the kick starter & decomp to yours or did it come with both?
    Reason for my questions- I have both 90's model XT & a TT, I'm collecting bits to add an FCR & kick start & decomp to the XT.
    I also plan to convert the TT to electric start & kick with FCR as well. Frames are different but I can't remember seeing anyone add an FCR onto an electric start model XT without modding the frame.
    So very interested to see what obstacles you come across as you do yours.
    #34
  15. Battletoads

    Battletoads Adventurer

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    Oh, yeah my bike never had a el-start, i think mine would be an 3tb600k while the normal one would be 3tb600e, but there is some european twist to it or something so i can't say what it's called from the top of my head. My engine is pretty much the same as the 2kf600 eksept for an external oil line T-ed out from the oil filter and over the 5th gear. But i had to swap parts of my crankcase, so i don't have that oil line anymore, as im riding a 2kf/3tb hybrid :p
    Back to the carb, the intake is cast alu. So altering it would be hard i think (atleast for me) but i know it's possible (i have seen it) but MY plan is to cut out i tiny pice of the frame (just the bracing under the frametubing) and im hoping to continue soon, i have been travling due to work, and since i got back home i have been working on a trailer i got super cheap, adding new wood to it and hopefully im gonna be able to make a bike stand on it so i can alos use it to move bikes or just a work bench :p
    Pics- my xt engine and the trailer (my r1100r in the background)

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    #35
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  16. Battletoads

    Battletoads Adventurer

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    It's possible i just let this post die on me to see more details check my instagram gnagsaar_moto

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  17. Battletoads

    Battletoads Adventurer

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    I never got the fcr to work because idk, it worked fine on my harley tho and i got my xt600 down to atleast 130kg (inkl fluids) witch im pretty happy with

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    #37
  18. billyka21

    billyka21 n00b

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    I know its a little bit old thread,but,how you aligned front with back wheel?
    #38