Is there a LC4 Starter diagram (of internals) anywhere?

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by BlitzBike, Jul 28, 2006.

  1. creeper

    creeper Still alive...

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    Mad scientists are not as menacing if they are short, fat and balding. :dunno
    #21
  2. Donkey Hotey

    Donkey Hotey De Jo Momma

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    I don't know about that. Nobody got in our way when we went to Sequoia last month (she's saluting too--you just can't see her little claw).

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    #22
  3. Odysseus

    Odysseus Stoic Philosopher

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    One way to tell if you need a new starter, or if something else is the culprit is to have someone press the starter button, while you tap on the starter itself, you can use peice of wood to reach the starter, and then tap on the wood with a hammer. If the tapping causes the starter to turn over then you need a new one. If the tapping doesn't do anything the problem is elsewhere.

    I suspect you need a new starter, your symptoms sound exactly like mine last month when mine went out.
    #23
  4. Buckster

    Buckster Banned

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    It is very easy to strip and clean.
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    It uses brushes that get lips, if you strip them out of here and de bur them it helps.
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    Dont for get to clean this point and apply a light grease, helps it turn better.
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    Clean the magnet of brush powder and any other debris.
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    The winding is pretty solid state, check for cracks and give it a thorough clean.
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    Make sure you put it back together properly and it will be sweet, if the brushes are worn right down, a good auto electricial can make some new ones just take the old ones with you.
    #24
  5. BlitzBike

    BlitzBike LC4 Pilot

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    Wow...Thanks for the juicy info guys!!
    #25
  6. Buckster

    Buckster Banned

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    That's Meat's dream shattered, something that wasn't in the bleeping index thread.
    #26
  7. meat popsicle

    meat popsicle Ignostic

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    My ADV dream come true: something that did not exist, indexed for posterior, no posterity; yeah, that's it. (I'll have to add your guide to the thread title)
    :smooch
    #27
  8. AndyA

    AndyA Trail Rider

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    Not strictly true my starter had the same symptoms as you discribed so I striped it down and found the backend full of crap and water so I cleaned it all out sealed up the case and battery feed with silicone and what do you know the starter is like new, also their is a company in the uk that will rebrush the starter for $52.00 so it is worth looking at the internals as over here they want $460.00 for a new starter.:eek1 I have photos of the strip down but i think Buckster covered it.:clap
    #28
  9. mikeegee

    mikeegee Been here awhile

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    Apparently the starters on some of our bikes leave a bit to be desired.

    Has anyone looked to see if something like the All Balls HD starters would fit the application for an lc4? Are they more powerful and turn the motor easier?

    Just a thought. Maybe I should just re-brush mine.
    #29
  10. bmwktmbill

    bmwktmbill Traveler

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    Just cleaned mine up. Easy....
    My local starter guy load tests by clamping the starter in a vice, gets it spinning and uses a piece of 2x4 to try to slow it down.
    His dx is never wrong.
    bill.
    #30
  11. The Duke

    The Duke Guest

    99 LC4 - I just did this reapair and saved A$590, the quoted replacement cost of a starter motor in Australia. My only cost was time.

    If the the battery is fine you can determine if the problem lies with the relay, starter motor or sprague clutch by:

    1. Check the relay fuses. if OK proceeed.
    2. Short the relay and press the starter button with igition on.
    The relay is beside the battery. Use a pair of long nose plyers to do the short. If the starter kicks over, replace the relay. If not go to 3.

    3. Run jumper leads from any 12V battery directly to the starter motor. Earth the negative to the motor somewhere. On top of the starter is the + terminal. Attach the positive lead to that. (pull back the rubber cover -doh!).

    You have now bypassed the ignition switch and the starter relay. If the starter spins but the motor does not turn over, you probably have to look at the starter sprague clutch. (There's a thread somewhere dealing with a cheap fix for that).

    If the starter does not spin, you have a problem with the starter. While you have the power going into the starter give it a couple of whacks with a lump of timber. If it shows signs of life, chances are its full of gunk.

    Now you gotta pull the starter off. 2 bolts holding left side, a cover and 3 bolts right side. Pull out the gear and shaft and the starter is off.

    Here's the thing. KTM won't sell you a 10cent brush, but a auto-electrician will. (or give you one) All you gotta do is file it down to fit and solder the woven copper lead from the brush to the back of + terminal bolt.

    OK that sounds straight forward but the soldering is a trick. I found the bush would not spring back and forth because the thickness of the solder means the copper tail was no longer flexible. After a bit of fiddling I decided to replace the copper tail with some shielded copper wire cut from an extension lead. Then I could get the brush plate back in. ( Use 2 strands otherwise it won't take the current, meltdown!)

    Reasemble the starter and before you put it back on the bike, connect 12Vs into it. It should spin. If it dosn't, the winding might be cactus or your copper tail is shorting against the body.

    Well it worked for me, so give it a go before you throw that starter out. And DON"T ditch the starter - someone out there needs it.
    Happy hooning.:freaky
    #31
  12. Addict orange

    Addict orange Adventurer

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    :hung Hola. An old thread but new to me. :)
    Just wanted to let all know, I can get starters new for these bikes (and most others) for about $130 new. Also, I can get rebuild kits, neatly packaged with new brushes spot welded to a new battery stud/ ground plate with bushings and seals, for most bikes under $50. Plus the ship ship shipping of course. Faithful old OO.p.s. pulls right up to my door daily.

    I Probably should have let out this info sooner, but didn't think about it until I found this particular thread.:shog
    #32
  13. bmwktmbill

    bmwktmbill Traveler

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    Addict,
    Can you get other ignition parts cheap, flywheel puller? Anything else?
    Thanks, b.
    #33
  14. johan

    johan Been here awhile

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    Related question: To pull of the starter engine, I just remove the two bolts on the left side of the case and pull?
    EDIT: Ah, saw The Dukes post. Never mind
    #34
  15. Addict orange

    Addict orange Adventurer

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    Sorry bill, no. My main business is battery/alternator/starter systems, mostly on cars/trucks.
    #35
  16. mikeegee

    mikeegee Been here awhile

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    I recently replaced the brushes in my starter as the damn thing could hardly turn itself over, much less the motor. If you go that route, just make sure you scrape the carbon out of between the little plates on the little end. If you don't they can act to bridge the plates and make your starter highly ineffective.
    #36
  17. robberst

    robberst Been here awhile

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    I see this thread is rather old, but for the sake of posterity, or anyone else looking for starter problems......

    I have a 1999 640 adventure. The starter has been acting funny for a while. started working intermittently then not at all, just the solenoid click. Today, I popped it off disassembled the starter motor and found it 1/4 full of engine oil. the oil seal behind the front bearing is worn through. I cleaned it throughly and the motor functions again. tomorrow i'll be off the local bearing and drives store to see if I can find some replacement parts. I did a quick google search and it looks like several Honda and Kawasaki motorcycles use the same motor.
    #37
  18. gunnerbuck

    gunnerbuck Island Hopper

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    I was able to find a rebuild kit to match the LC 4 starter... The kit from a 87-89 Honda CBR 600 is a direct replacement and at $27.40 is a lot cheaper than the KTM option of a new starter....

    I picked it up through Rareelectrical.com... $27.40 + $19 shipping to Canada....
    #38
  19. wallache

    wallache Been here awhile

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    :clap I love this site!
    #39
  20. gunnerbuck

    gunnerbuck Island Hopper

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    The kit comes with everything needed for a full rebuild, all bearings,bushings ,seals and a new set of brushes on a new mounting plate....

    The most difficult part of the rebuild is driving out the needle cage and seal... The seal has bonding agent on it... To get the bearing to move I had to heat the cap on the outside around the bearing and then drift it out...

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    #40