Is there a LC4 Starter diagram (of internals) anywhere?

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by BlitzBike, Jul 28, 2006.

  1. wrk2surf

    wrk2surf on the gas or brakes

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    this needs to go in the f;;ing lc4 thread..

    Nice
    #41
  2. rallyelc4

    rallyelc4 Been here awhile

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    yes it does (please meaty)
    #42
  3. Tseta

    Tseta Lost

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    OK, I looked and searched high and low, and only found some remotely related products, not the real deal...

    Is there a part number, supplier name or a link available?

    Cheers,

    Tseta
    #43
  4. robberst

    robberst Been here awhile

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    ricksmotorsportelectrics.com is where I ended up getting parts for my motor.
    I disassembled the motor took a photograph and sent it to them. They sent me all the parts needed to fix it. About $40. They also have replacement motors for about $180. My bearings were still in good condition. The $40 was for the brushplate and seals. I'm not a very organized sort of person. I have no idea what the part numbers were...
    Sorry Tseta, probably not very helpful for you.
    #44
  5. gunnerbuck

    gunnerbuck Island Hopper

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    I updated my first post to add the supplier where I picked up the kit....

    Mitsuba makes the starters for just about every brand out there... By studying pictures of the different starter configs I was able to figure out which ones will have the same internals as the LC 4 starter...

    I have a second kit on order that was listed for a Polaris ATV which I think is also the same... I will post the findings and info when that kit arrives...
    #45
  6. gunnerbuck

    gunnerbuck Island Hopper

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    The polaris kit came and all the parts will work in the LC 4 starter except the brush mounting plate... The polaris starter spins opposite to the LC 4 so the brushes are reversed on the plate.... To make this work I will transfer the brushes from the kit plate over to my old LC 4 brush plate...

    The polaris kit part # 79-85118 including shipping worked out to be about $12 cheaper than the CBR 600 kit....
    #46
  7. Zecatfish

    Zecatfish XTique Rider

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    I use to work in a starter/alt shop years ago.
    If you have a drill press with a large enough check, put the stator in the press and spin it and use emery clutch on the stator to freshen up the contact surface for the bushes.
    If your stator is worn and grooved I would suggest finding a local builder or even machine shop and have then chuck it in the lathe and take a few thousandths off it and freshen it up.

    We've got some start shops in Little Rock and I typically just pull a starter and go visit them and 30 minutes and $40 later its got new brushes and bushings and ready to work again.

    Something that does happen occasionally is a stator will get a dead spot, break in the copper, or fields start shorting, then your in for more $$$.

    Thanks for the thread, I'm starting to ponder if the starter on the LC4E is drawing to much amperage and its loosing fire when you hit the button. :cry
    IT can turn over at what seems like a fair speed, but no starting.
    I can put the 2 amp charger on it and hit the button and it spins faster and starts in 1 or 2 revolutions. :huh Kind of like my Yamaha XS850.
    #47
  8. Low594

    Low594 Adventuring Creep

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    Last few days (starting in the middle of my Death Valley trip), I've been dealing with the starter not cooperating.

    It would just kind of sieze up and not turn, we even jumped the post directly from another bike. Every once in a while when kicking it I could hear it free up and then the elec starter worked like nothing was wrong! Today, while stranded in the hills I tore into it and found it full of oil! :huh Well on further inspect, the seal in the nose is going out, I could actually see the lip spring wearing through! So I called rareelectrical.com to ask for help and ended up leaving a message. I'll post up here the part number and other vitals when i get somewhere positive or negative!
    #48
  9. wrk2surf

    wrk2surf on the gas or brakes

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    Did you replace your sprague clutch before you left or just try fixing it? You Might have to learn how to kick it.. I had the same issue but ended up getting a new set of gears and sprague and had my starter rebulit at a starter shop for 90.00.. all done at once and good for thousands of miles...

    remember pull the deco.. kick it through 3 times .. one final time slowly kickin till just before the auto deco CLICK to the "top of the stroke" then kick it thru.. if it doesnt work .. repeat.. it works (easily trust me)
    #49
  10. Low594

    Low594 Adventuring Creep

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    At this point, I'm not seeing any signs of a bad spague clutch, at least by what i have read. But it seems pretty fishy having oil in the starter! I have kickstarted it more times than I care to count! Not bad! I do need to work on the technique!
    #50
  11. Low594

    Low594 Adventuring Creep

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    Well, I got the parts and got a chance to clean everything up and get it put back together, with a couple of hitches.

    The kit I ordered on ebay from "emsglobaldirect" (part #RBK-23) they list for a 1999-2006 Honda CBR600F4. The point plate and case orings did not fit. The Honda has a smaller version of the starter. But the seal did fit! :clap Also seems that the bushing is the right dimensions, mine is fine so I'm not replacing. The bearing comes as a bronze bushing for the honda, again looks like it will fit but mine is in good shape so no confirmation. It also comes with the oring for the nose and the bolt orings, which will be replaced once I get the new point plate. Which looks like I will be ordering from Rick's, once I have the part number confirmation.

    Here's the response from Rick's on a rebuild kit:
    "Thanks for the plug – that would be awesome The parts are priced individually:
    Bearing seal – RSL002, $10
    Bearing – (no part#), $10
    Bushing – MSL020, $2
    Brush plate kit – 70-511, $24.95
    We’re also working on getting these armatures, but we don’t have anything in stock yet."

    I was going to order the Brush Plate Kit, but when I looked it up on their site with the vehicle info, it listed the # as 70-504, so I sent an email to confirm which to order.
    #51
  12. Alik

    Alik viertaKTMotor *****

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    Tseta, did You found an European source of the rebuild kit? After hammering the bearings in the frame tube for the linkage my starter motor started to act weird. Click, no action, kickstart, no problem. Next time start without any problems. Then again. I need some numbers before I start to dig out the motor.
    It looks I am being plagued by every small kind of LC4 problems ;)
    #52
  13. gunnerbuck

    gunnerbuck Island Hopper

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    Check to see if your ground strap from the battery to the frame hasn't come loose...
    #53
  14. Low594

    Low594 Adventuring Creep

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    Well I got the point plate replaced and it definitely helped the whole thing, but I was also experiencing battery issues, so that got replaced. I forgot which part number, tho. I'm planning on checking out the starter relay, replacing the cables with larger ones and i'm going to add a few engine to frame grounds, just for safety sake.
    #54
  15. Alik

    Alik viertaKTMotor *****

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    Thanks for the tip, Gunnerbuck! I did checked that too, but I was one of the brushes that did quit its duty.

    Process is simple enough: disconnect negative terminal from the battery, remove the starter motor fasteners on the left side of the engine, remove the rubber protection cover of the positive terminal on the starter motor and remove the terminal from the motor, move the surrounding cables and lines a bit away to clear some space, pull the motor or push it form the right side out and then carefully maneouver the starter motor out. Watch out for the fuel line! :evil

    Dissasembly starter motor into pieces taking photos or laying all those spacers and seals in their order so You can reinstall them afterwards.
    Clean the dust from the old brushes from the inside (a small air compressor could be handy), inspect the bearings, seals and spacers for wear, lube the bearing with some fresh grease, heat up old soldering points and remove old brushes. Watch out for the springs!
    Install both new brushes (I did got one big brush with 2 connectors which I carefully splitted into two with small Dremmel and filed up to the right dimension: 10mm x 6mm x 11 mm) taking care that they can easily slide in and out.
    Put everything back together. Installation is the reverse of the removal procedure.
    Check starter motor for function. Connect negative terminal from (disconnected or another) battery to housing - You can use jumper cables for that. Connect cable to positive terminal of the battery FIRST and then touch with the other end to the plus terminal of the starter motor. If it works You just have spared some cash. If not - chances are You have blown something while soldering or reinstalling. Re-check.

    Lube the o-ring with some engine oil and refasten the motor to the engine housing. Torque the starter motor bolts with 10 Nm. Reconnect the positive terminal to starter motor. Reconnect negative terminal to the battery. Test everything for function. Put the seat back. Ride! :)
    #55
  16. AdventureDave

    AdventureDave MMMMM Bundy!

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    I just pulled my starter apart and gave it a clean. All went well and I put it back together and.......nothing. Just click - click as I push the button. So I pulled it apart and found that the rubber grommet that isolates the positive terminal from the case wasnt seated properly. I'm not sure if that was all but that seemed to be the only thing I changed. then no problemo! She turned and fired strongly. So when you put it back together check the rubber sleeve / grommet is sitting in place.

    Cheers

    David
    #56
  17. bmwktmbill

    bmwktmbill Traveler

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    Thanks to all recent posters, neat stuff.
    bill
    #57
  18. jmazz

    jmazz Adventurer

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    Thanks to everyone that added info to this thread. I was able to rebuild my starter cheaply and easily. I had trouble with some of the older links provided and had to search a little on my own. I ended up finding a rebuild kit that was the exact one. Every piece fit perfectly. Probably the same one gunnerbuck photographed.

    I ordered part #79-85107 from Motor City Reman.
    http://www.motorcityreman.com/79rekit4.html

    Just in case that link dies I will paste some of their detailed description because it has a huge list of bikes it fits and cross references.

    79-85107 Repair Kit
    For :
    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Trebuchet MS] Mitsuba 2-Brush PMDD Starters
    Used On:
    Arctic Cat 250, 300 ATV
    Honda TR250, TRX250, TRX300, TRX400, TRX450, TRX500 ATV
    Honda CB400, CBR600, NX650, XR650L Motorcycles
    Kawasaki KLF400, KVF400 ATV
    Kawasaki KZ1000, ZR750 Motorcycles
    Suzuki LT-4WD, LT-F160, LT-F230, LT-F250, LT-F300F, LT-Z250, LT160, LT230 Series ATV
    Suzuki GSX600F, VZ800 Motorcycles
    Yamaha FZR600, YZF600 Motorcycles
    Replaces:
    Ref. Nos. 6991-102, RBK-2, SMU9102
    Lester Number :
    18336, 18337, 18609, 18612, 18621, 18666, 18671, 18697, 18702, 18712, 18745, 18782, 18805, 18807, 18808
    [/FONT]
    #58
  19. AEsco48

    AEsco48 Adventurer

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    Hello!

    A few weeks ago I had the brushes on my starter replaced by a local mech here in Egypt and that part of the starter is working fine. But now I am getting a loud whining/winding noise. The guys are saying its the bearings and or bushings...

    Can anyone confirm?... Are the bearings and or bushings are a simple slip off/on?
    #59
  20. Alik

    Alik viertaKTMotor *****

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    Search the index for "clutch sprague" by losiu and You will get the idea what is causing the noise.
    #60