Is there a LC4 Starter diagram (of internals) anywhere?

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by BlitzBike, Jul 28, 2006.

  1. AEsco48

    AEsco48 Adventurer

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    Alik, thx for the info. The bike starts up fine and only makes the whine/turbine noise while I press the starter button. Does this still apply to the sprague clutch? Thx
    #61
  2. AEsco48

    AEsco48 Adventurer

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    Here is a video of what it sounds like.

    Video was right after i ran out of fuel, that's why it did not start. Normally I just have to hit the starter for a split second and the bike fires up right away.

    http://youtu.be/rjISVTSAGYI
    #62
  3. clintnz

    clintnz Trans-Global Chook Chaser

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    A 2014 update for anyone with a flaky starter, I just rebuilt mine with this kit. Above link & part# still current thanks jmazz :D

    I was getting the occasional click-nothing when pressing the starter button - power to the starter but no current draw suggested brushes as the problem & they were indeed worn out. The rebuilt unit has definitely solved that issue & it is turning over a good deal stronger also.

    The kit was delivered quite quickly & landed it didn't cost me much more than I paid a local auto electrician to supply & fit a couple of brushes a few years back.

    Only minor issues were that they packed it in a huge box which cost me a few $ extra at my shipping forwarder & instead of the needle roller output bearing there was just a bush in the kit. I left the old needle roller bearing in there as it was all good.

    This thing really is simple to work on, it only takes a minute to remove from the bike & it comes apart easy. To remove the old bush at the brush end I threaded in an M10x1.5 tap which extracted it nicely. The seal was levered out easily on mine. My commutator wasn't really worn to any great extent so a quick scrub with emery paper made that good. Be careful installing the +ve post, make sure the lead to the brush is sitting in the right orientation so the brush can move freely.

    Cheers
    Clint
    #63
  4. wrk2surf

    wrk2surf on the gas or brakes

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    Needed to bump this out for my own reference..

    I have found a supply site http://www.stockers.com/index.php?br=Mitsuba+Repair+Parts

    I will be trying to use rbk2 or rbk 2b under advisement from a Canadian we all know ~ Thanks Gunnerbuck!




    on another note this particular company SAYS it doesnt have a kit per se.. here is my email and their reply


    HI

    I am browsing through your Mitsuba rebuild kits and need to know which total rebuild kit you suggest for a mitsuba starter from a 99-06 KTM 640 LC4 ? it is also the same starter on a KTM 625 SXC and a KTM 640 adventure.



    It seems either the rbk 2 or rbk 2b ... which kits do you suggest ?



    Thank you

    Mike


    Hi,
    At this moment there is not a repair kit available for that starter. The only option we can offer is a complete starter, part # KT-103N.

    Thank you
    Jay
    Stockers Starters





    SO i either am ordering the 2b version and do it with a buddy OR I will take it to one of my customers that owns a electric motor repair shop since I have two to do...

    #64
  5. gunnerbuck

    gunnerbuck Island Hopper

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    It looks like a Honda XR 650 L runs the same starter so that is a much easier kit to find.. A couple here at pretty reasonable prices:

    http://www.ebay.ca/itm/270515606987?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#shpCntId

    http://www.ebay.ca/itm/350842073462?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

    What really wears on the 640 starter is the brushes and the seals...When I last rebuilt my starter I replaced all the internal bearing/ bushing stuff because the kit came with replacements for those, but the take outs were all still serviceable and could of been left alone...
    #65
  6. enzo906

    enzo906 Adventurer

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    Has anyone any thoughts on these replacements for 100 to 200 versus the insane original KTM prices.

    My starter is old so I will rebuild but would like a new one while I do it as I need the bike (ride daily) and kicking when your over 50 is getting harder on the hip joint :)

    So are they good for say 2 years of daily starting?
    #66
  7. gunnerbuck

    gunnerbuck Island Hopper

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    I rebuilt my starter once so far in ten yrs, in that time a fair amount of miles were logged.. The lifespan of a starter will vary, if you have a quick starting bike then 10yrs out of a starter is not unheard of... A bike than needs a fair bit of cranking may go through a starter in 2 yrs...

    I put one of those ebay starters on my project bike and it cranks the engine just fine..
    It is basicaly a copy of the stock mitsuba and shares the same parts..
    #67
  8. enzo906

    enzo906 Adventurer

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    Thanks Gunner that is all I need to know
    Mine starts so easy that it can be started with the sidestand down and only half a kick usually
    I hate electrical stuff, I would rather machine the crank off centre source a rod and stroke the bike before trying to fix a electrical problem :)
    I am ordering a new starter and will also try and source brushes for the old............one day ;)
    #68
  9. Mo-Tarded

    Mo-Tarded Been here awhile

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    You guys are fuurrreaky, but I'm glad I found y'all...

    Stopped today (almost got trampled by a herd of elk) , shut it down, hit the starter button and "click". Neutral button went dim, repeat 3X.

    It did kick start, but I could hear the relay under the seat. Sounds like it's shorted (guessing).

    More fun tomorrow. :)
    #69
  10. wrk2surf

    wrk2surf on the gas or brakes

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    try pulling the decomp lever slightly while trying to start
    #70
  11. Mo-Tarded

    Mo-Tarded Been here awhile

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    Okay.... I tried the decomp, no results, then went to the #3 diagnosis (Ref post #31 from The Duke) which reads as follows:

    3. Run jumper leads from any 12V battery directly to the starter motor. Earth the negative to the motor somewhere. On top of the starter is the + terminal. Attach the positive lead to that. (pull back the rubber cover -doh!). I actually used the starting relay terminal here as it was easier to get to.

    You have now bypassed the ignition switch and the starter relay. If the starter spins but the motor does not turn over, you probably have to look at the starter sprague clutch. (There's a thread somewhere dealing with a cheap fix for that).

    If the starter does not spin, you have a problem with the starter.


    The starter didn't spin and the inline fuse (to the aux battery) blew, so I am assuming the motor, or some part thereof is shorted.

    The relay appears to be switching normally (judging by the noise) when the start button is activated. ...and it must be a normally open relay, once de-energized it returns to the NO position and can be re-activated, but only if you shut the ignition switch "Off".

    Any resonance to that conclusion ? TYVM in advance !
    #71
  12. gunnerbuck

    gunnerbuck Island Hopper

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    Take off the starter and tear it down, inspect the brushes and look for defects like moisture and such inside.. Also check the power to the starter with a meter and see if it gets some when you press the button
    #72
  13. Mo-Tarded

    Mo-Tarded Been here awhile

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    I tried to check the power to the starter (when the button was pushed) with a meter but I'm guessing once the relay closes with something in the motor shorted that the impulse is so quick the meter barely flinches (it doesn't maintain a steady 12VDC to the motor).

    ...but taking the motor apart is relatively simple I can do. I know enough to be dangerous anyways. :)

    Thanks GB...
    #73
  14. gunnerbuck

    gunnerbuck Island Hopper

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    I meant to check the wire with it unhooked from the starter... Also check the relay under the right side cover, it is at the back.. The wires have a habit of chafing through near the relay cluster plug..
    #74
  15. Mo-Tarded

    Mo-Tarded Been here awhile

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    Yes.... I guess I figured that out. Duh... So I removed the 12VDC lead and checked it, it had close to 12VDC on it when the starter button was depressed. I did it several times and wiggled the wires in/on/around the starter relay and had consistent voltage on the lead.

    Removed the starter motor, disassembled it and found nothing remarkable (no debris, corrosion, brushes looked good with very little wear).

    Reassembled the motor, applied 12VDC to it and still nothing.

    Not knowing how (where) to measure for a short within the coils I didn't do that, but I'm thinking that would be the only thing left that could be wrong. Seems pretty rare, but I s'pose they could open/short.

    Any other ideas ?
    #75
  16. gunnerbuck

    gunnerbuck Island Hopper

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    Check the positive through fitting post on the starter body, make sure the isolators are still there and that the terminal is not touching the starter body in any way causing it to short out..

    If you do indeed have a steady 12 volt+ to the starter + wire when you press the start button then the starter itself is at fault in some form... If it is a short in the windings then you may be better off to replace it... Ebay has some: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Starter...e-2001-2002-2003-2004-2005-2006-/151242226136
    #76
  17. Mo-Tarded

    Mo-Tarded Been here awhile

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    12VDC input terminal was isolated and there was continuity to the 12VDC brush and no continuity elsewhere from the 12V terminal, internal lead, or brush (to ground).

    The armature (measured in the brush contact area) however was shorted (somewhere, must be a winding) to the shaft. So therein lies the short I guess.

    Seems awful strange failure mechanism though.... The armature has to be isolated from ground.

    Either way, I think I'm in for a new starter motor. Know anyone who bought one of those $75 versions on eBay ?
    #77
  18. gunnerbuck

    gunnerbuck Island Hopper

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    yep me, works fine on my project bike..
    #78
  19. emahan01

    emahan01 Adventurer

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    Starter stopped working and upon inspection found a broken tooth in the intermediate gear and starter was shot. Replaced that and installed a new free wheel(largest gear, sprag, and part on fly wheel). However freewheel didn't disengage once started and spun the starter till it quit. I couldn't kick start it due to the starter dragging so i e started it resulting in the starter coming apart once it started. The free wheel assembly works outside the bike before installed. Disassembled entire thing can't find what was wrong reassembled and now I can kick it fine and it's not spinning the starter anymore. Any ideas? new starter should be in tomorrow for a second attempt.
    #79
  20. gunnerbuck

    gunnerbuck Island Hopper

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    The starter will drag if the retaining clip that holds the sprague clutch in place comes loose... In a lot of cases when teeth get broken off the starter gears, it points towards a non functioning auto decomp... A properly functioning auto decomp takes a lot of strain off the starter assembly... Using the manual decomp upon startup will also reduce the strain...
    #80