It's Going to get Worse

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by bodine003, Sep 4, 2018.

  1. shovelstrokeed

    shovelstrokeed Long timer

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    Is that supposed to be something new?
    My 2000 S55 AMG had it until the sand blasting from Florida beach air ruined the antenna.
    #41
  2. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades...

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    Said the rider with the Ural... :lol3


    That is what is in the avitar, isn't it?

    Just teasin'

    I think that is good tech. My one co-worker said he was kind of bugged with it. Seems his wife keeps resetting the distance where it kicks in... he likes to "draft" as he put it. Most would probably call it "right on my butt" if he was behind them.
    #42
  3. SocalRob

    SocalRob Long timer Supporter

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    Great humble brag there. Not many us drive $150k cars. Parents buy it for you?
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  4. BetterLateThanNever

    BetterLateThanNever Long timer

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    Yeah, but until they all do, my point stands, I think.
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  5. shovelstrokeed

    shovelstrokeed Long timer

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    Not quite, I paid for it myself along with quite a few of the enormous repair costs. It was only 100K new, as I recall, I paid 15K for it about 5 years ago which was about right. It was one of the cars that taught me to stay far away from cars I couldn't afford when new cause you damn sure can't afford to keep one in good shape once the warranty runs out.
    #45
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  6. BetterLateThanNever

    BetterLateThanNever Long timer

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    Not sure I see the relevance. It seems to me that if a 2018 car still can't get it right, it's unlikely that most 2000 cars did. Unless you were just showing off.
    #46
  7. shovelstrokeed

    shovelstrokeed Long timer

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    Wasn't me, it was Mercedes and maybe AMG. The S class cars have always been the technology leaders in the Mercedes world. I'm not even sure it was actually radar, might well have been some low or high frequency sound. Principle is the same and when the antenna gets fucked, the system stops working. Not worth the 5 or 600 they wanted to fix it. I have a functioning right foot and try to avoid freeways as much as possible.
    The technology is hardly new, my father trained to be a radar technician back during WWII when radar really was a big deal. I'm really surprised it took the auto industry so long to adopt it.
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  8. windmill

    windmill Long timer

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    Yup, have 2, 2007 Patrol and a 2018 M70.

    If they were even remotely as bad in the real world as they are on line, I wouldn't have any.

    #2
    [​IMG]
    #48
  9. Tall Man

    Tall Man Priest, Temple of Syrinx

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    So true. My father had a BMW coupe that had an Appetite for Repair...and Maintenance, come to that.

    When that car was running well, it was like nothing else I've driven, before or after. The ad copy was indeed accurate. He simply tired of it requiring a financial subsidy that was also like nothing else he owned.

    I miss the car, but I doubt I'd say that if I had to write the checks.
    #49
  10. Pecha72

    Pecha72 Long timer

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    Carbs and points haha.. you want to keep adjusting and fixing them, be my guest! I'll choose FI any day of the week. In fact ABS works really well these days too. The only ones who claim otherwise are the most stubborn stuck in the old riders, who are so vehemently opposed to the whole idea, that they have not really tested them. (I've owned many non ABS bikes by the way, still do but it's clear to me which is better for the road).
    All those new 'integrated entertainment and phone connectivity systems' should be shoved where the sun don't shine though. Possibly a (well placed) navigator is okay, because glancing on a paper map on your tank bag's not very practical or safe.. but any more distractions, no thanks! Pretty easy to see what those do to many cagers. I take my phone with me for emergency cases, put silent mode on, place it in my pocket and ride. I just do not get it, why so many people feel they HAVE to be able to answer ALL THE TIME 24/7/365. I'll check the fucking phone, while I'm on a break, and when I ride (or drive!), I concentrate on that. It's really so simple.
    #50
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  11. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades...

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    go ahead and laugh about points and carbs. I've actually filed and reused old points in my Moto Guzzi, try that with a burned out black box. Same with a carb, They can actually work when worn out, maybe badly, but work. Again try that with a fried fuel pump or other EFI burned out parts.

    Just sayin' there are pluses and minuses to everything. I'd not really want to go back to points if I don't have to, but it was a heck of a lot simpler and fixable on the roadside. I would probably like EFI, although I am not happy about the fuel pump going out on the scooter I have. If the scooter is shut off and doesn't get started with in a few minutes apparently the pump gets too much heat from the engine heating everything up under the covers and the pump quits pumping until it cools for like two hours. Not a good thing. Gravity feed continues to feed if everything is open even if the fuel tank gets heated up sitting still. I do know the V-4 Honda engines could experience vapor lock though.
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  12. Pecha72

    Pecha72 Long timer

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    Yeah I've had many carb'd bikes, and I know the ups & downs. Got my 1st FI bike in -03, and I'm still waiting for the first fuel pump to give up (or have any FI related problem whatsoever for that matter). Basically the same experience with cars, from about the early 90s.
    Oh, same thing with ABS brakes as well, in fact I was very suspicious initially and thought they're too complicated and could fail. Has not happened once yet, in about 12 years on bikes and 25 years on cars.
    Of course anything built by man can sometimes break, but I doubt the strategy for the most trouble-free riding, is always sticking to old technology..
    #52
  13. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades...

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    Yeah, like some of my student could break a steel ball bearing with a rubber mallet.

    Only real advantage I see to carbs now is with the ability to bolt on a bigger carb for performance versus the problems and electronic stuff dealing with EFI. But if they ever get some hop up bigger bore with proper electronics/programming that bolt on that advantage goes away real fast. I love the idea they have with cars and the self-teaching EFI set ups. Get it close then it zones itself in. Pretty cool.

    Only time I've considered going back to points is with the SR500. Seems they can cook their ignition coils rather easily. It would be nice to bolt on the point set up from an XT or TT to avoid that problem. Otherwise I really wouldn't want to go back from CDI set ups.
    #53
  14. canoeguy

    canoeguy Long timer

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    About carbs and FI, as I said in the other thread I can patch a carb back together enough to limp to safety even on the side of the road in say Guatemala. If an injector gets clogged or there is some sort of electrical fault I am screwed. That is the only advantage. So while I don't have any hesitation in fuel injection I can honestly say were I riding around the world I probably would stick to a carbureted bike just because I can repair or clean it just about anywhere. Of course there are tons of fuel injector bikes riding the world right now. But there are also a few that have been stranded.

    I have never had fuel injection strand me either. But thinking my experience to this point determines future outcomes of my own or others is confirmation bias. Fuel injection is better in so many ways but an idiot like me can't fix it. and for me the ultimate ADV bike is simple and easily repaired.
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  15. Pecha72

    Pecha72 Long timer

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    Actually many of the problems encountered with 'newer tech', are in reality due to bad maintenance.
    See what a guy, who has done 'a few' real adventure / RTW type of trips (i think he's actually done some epic writeups on this very site years ago), thinks about this debate:
    http://www.sibirskyextreme.com/2013/09/adv-bike-selection-2/
    #55
  16. Pecha72

    Pecha72 Long timer

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    got to say this is quite brilliant, and something that i have not seen mentioned very often in this discussion (quote taken from the link above)...
    "
    There are further disadvantages with carburetors. They are gravity fed. They do not operate well at awkward angles. And (in the absence of a fuel pump – which is most cases) they need to have the ALL of the bikes fuel stored higher than the carburetor. Having the fuel high and the carburetor low has two disadvantages for adventure bikes. Firstly the higher than necessary centre of mass that an overlanding fuel load (often 20-30 kgs including the tank) implies when it is located high on the bike rather than low, and secondly a low carburetor, which due to breathing holes means the bikes ability to ford water crossings is very much reduced vs a fuel injected bike which relies on air intake alone as its determinant of fording depth. The ideal design outcome for an adventure motorcycle is to have the fuel low (for weight distribution) and the induction and air intake high (for water fording) … carburetors tend to lead to the exact opposite.
    "
    #56
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  17. canoeguy

    canoeguy Long timer

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    And you have to respect his experience. But he is using some unfair comparisons when talking about subs or aircraft that only use clean top notch fuel and not a jug on the side of the road. As well my "twelve buttons" thread has several examples of failures on bikes and I personally have had multiple vehicles(company) that have had fuel injection failures. Luckily we all have our own experiences and the options are still out there to ride what we are most comfortable with.

    I should point out that my main bike nowadays is a '16 GSA so I am not afraid of technology. But I may not trust it enough to take me over the border and into no mans land.
    #57
  18. shovelstrokeed

    shovelstrokeed Long timer

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    To the average schlub riding around on a motorcycle it doesn't make a bit of difference carb vs EFI. If either one shits the bed he is looking for a tow truck. Yeah, in some ways, to an experienced mechanic, the carb is simpler and if he carries some spares, he can probably get back to civilization. But, the same applies to EFI. A clogged injector is really no different from a plugged jet, and actually is easier to change. Both would be pretty rare with modern equipment anyway and the concept of PM is what is lost on today's bike rider. They just don't do it. People who fly airplanes understand PM and those the fly helicopters worship PM. They have to, otherwise they fall out of the sky.
    #58
  19. BetterLateThanNever

    BetterLateThanNever Long timer

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    Diesels, I’d bet. A whole different kettle of fish.

    The fact is, stories about carb problems seem to outnumber stories about EFI problems among motorcyclists by a million to one, and are often just narrative devices to show off the ingenuity of the owner. IIRC, the last time I read fuel injection failure stories on this forum, one was actually a clogged screen, one was about diesels, and one happened in 1985. Now so widely produced and with fewer moving parts than carbs, they really are bomb-proof.
    #59
  20. canoeguy

    canoeguy Long timer

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    Two diesels and one gas.

    Lets expand out to the whole system then...ever heard of a fuel pump failure?
    #60