It's Going to get Worse

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by bodine003, Sep 4, 2018.

  1. canoeguy

    canoeguy Long timer

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    Well, you have already had mine. Not that I am a master mechanic but I have rebuilt carburetors. Currently I have three bikes the oldest being a 2016 with fuel injection and three bikes with carbs. as well as the half dozen or more other bikes that were split between the two...I love thumpers. I haven't had any fail. I have had bad gas and a little water in the gas that was easier to deal with a carb. I stand by my earlier statements.
    #81
  2. BetterLateThanNever

    BetterLateThanNever Long timer

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    If I understand you correctly, this exists, is common, and is trickling down fast. I think every BMW currently sold has electronic engine management (versus the tunable but static fuel map that runs my Triumph's EFI, say). The way European emissions rules are heading, it will soon be impossible to make a bike compliant without electronic engine management.
    #82
  3. BetterLateThanNever

    BetterLateThanNever Long timer

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    Yet most folks don't carry spares for anything else on the bike that has an equivalent likelihood of failure and/or equivalent consequences.

    I respect subjective preference, and I totally respect preferring to ride with the thing you feel most comfortable working on. But I still feel like if this were truly apples to apples and totally rational, there would be a very weak case for carbs anymore. I made reference to Dakar above... hard to imagine most riders will ever be more 'out there' than that. And if they are, they should probably also have kick-start and carry spare rims.
    #83
  4. canoeguy

    canoeguy Long timer

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    Not kick start but on my one international trip I made sure to have a bike I could roll start easily. Rims can be beaten round enough usually and then you have tubes. Unlike the Dakar I don't have a team, support, helicopters flying over, or a clean up crew to come get me. Was I out there like they were? Maybe not but at times I felt like I was on the moon and it may have been a very, very long time before someone happened by if my bike shit the bed.

    Again just searching for fuel pump failure on this forum will show you it happens. So maybe one day I will continue on down to the tip of South America and maybe it will be with a fuel injected bike...but right now I don't think that is the case . Not only because of the fuel injection it is often the other advances that come along with the bikes that have fuel injection. So much electronic stuff that I cant fix. If a DRZ, DR, or KLR have an issue anything short of a catastrophic failure such as a cracked case is likely to be able to be patched enough to allow you to at least limp to a town. Fuel, air, and spark.

    Again it is all just my opinion. it's what I think makes sense when you are solo and there is no help or dealership anywhere around. We all do what makes us comfortable. I also carry too many spares.
    #84
  5. BetterLateThanNever

    BetterLateThanNever Long timer

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    Thanks, appreciate the perspective.

    The only part I glossed over was the "search on this forum" one. By definition, forums are kind of the worst place to get a feel for how reliable something is ;)
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  6. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades...

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    I think you misundersand what it is. BMW has electronic engine management, but you can't bolt it on to another car and have it work. Holley is making throttle body fuel injection that can be bolted on a Chevy, Ford, or Mopar in place of the four barrel, regardless of cams or whatever. A few settings are done to initiate the starting and running, then it will tune itself through a closed loop set up. Not just manage within some range, but actually adapt to a wide variety of different engine set ups. It would be like being able to take that BMW injection and bolt it on to an 81 R80GS and have it tune in and work. I don't think they have that versatility. They're set up to work with the one engine.

    How cool would it be to bolt on a throttle body on an older KLX or XR and have it tune in itself.
    #86
  7. texag10

    texag10 Been here awhile

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    I used to poo poo electronic aids as I rode around on a bike with FI but nothing else. Then I got a Tuono. Well sorted IMU based ABS and traction control with independent settings is the tits. I still haven't had ABS kick in when on the least intrusive of the 3 settings, and at level 2 all it really does is prevent low speed stoppies. Add in cruise control and the up/down QS and I am thoroughly impressed. It is easy to ride yet still engaging, and with a few button presses I can easily turn it all off, even while moving.
    #87
  8. bodine003

    bodine003 Long timer

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    Only EFI bike here is wife's 05 Z-750S, fuel pump failed at 21,000 miles. her 01 Bonneville (carb) had a jiffy stand interlock fail a couple years into ownership. only failure in 17yrs.
    I had to look up in my records my 76 R-75/6 is on a new set of points and condenser from 2004. Both carbs are doing just fine also.
    #88
  9. BetterLateThanNever

    BetterLateThanNever Long timer

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    I've owned five bikes with EFI, and never had a single failure of any kind, ever. But, like you, I am only a sample of one.
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  10. bodine003

    bodine003 Long timer

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    Might want to check with some of your buddy's EFI T/C HD owners about intank issues and fly by wire issues
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  11. BetterLateThanNever

    BetterLateThanNever Long timer

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    Nada. Zip.

    I think you've lost the trail, here. It looks to me like the people who prefer carbs like them because they're field serviceable, not because they need less attention. If you want to have a debate about straight-up failure rates, I don't think you're going to win it. There is no way that any current fuel injection system sees a wrench more often than even the best carb (how reliable someone's 15 year old EFI is about as relevant as how reliable their 60 year old carb is).

    Regarding your wife's fuel pump, might want to suggest not letting the fuel level stay low for so long, and avoiding old or contaminated gas (which clogs screens). These are the two weaknesses of fuel injection that persuade me a carb makes more sense when you're really out there. But for the other 99% of us, nothing is simpler or more reliable.
    #91
  12. Pecha72

    Pecha72 Long timer

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    I'd like to see these luddite arm chair experts beat that IMU assisted ABS in different real life riding situations, when you do not know, when a sudden stop, or other emergency maneuver is required. I'm sure some still prefer drum brakes, though.
    #92
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  13. canoeguy

    canoeguy Long timer

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    No one has implied in anyway that they could stop better without abs. As for the disc brake and drum brake thing it is just a silly comparison. You guys automatically want it to be about new tech vs old tech and it is not. It is about repairable and reliable systems in the field for me. There is no doubt that disc brakes are tried and true. It's solid and has been around forever. Its a simple system easily understood and by default you have two brakes so could always move forward on one albeit slowly and carefully.

    How many sensors and electronic doo-dads does my GSA have? I have no idea but I see enough threads over in the Boxer threads to tell me they can go out and I can't get the bike to run without them. Hell there is a company that makes a device to read the codes that you can take with you(gs911), that alone says something.

    We will always have differences of opinions on what we all are willing to rely on. That is perfectly fine because ultimately it is our own well being we put on the line.
    #93
  14. BetterLateThanNever

    BetterLateThanNever Long timer

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    This weekend, I took an 'experienced rider' course , and one of the sessions was focused on braking. I was riding my F700GS, which has ABS, but no IMU. In balls-out emergency stops from up to 80kph, I was regularly getting a back wheel in the air, just so you have a sense of how hard I was being asked to squeeze that lever. I learned two things: one, that it is entirely possible to threshold brake with ABS (they focused on this separately). The other is that, on this day on my bike, at least, the stopping distances were absolutely shorter with ABS (they measured each stop). I've always been a fan of ABS for its ability to keep the bike upright, but wondered if I was giving up stopping distance for that. It turns out - sample of one, before everybody pounces - I'm not. Pretty interesting.
    #94
  15. BetterLateThanNever

    BetterLateThanNever Long timer

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    I have one of those. What it "says" is that folks are working towards field serviceability for modern bikes :)
    #95
  16. canoeguy

    canoeguy Long timer

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    I don’t think you are a sample of one in this case. It has been proven time and time again that ABS will decrease stopping distance especially in real world situation. I haven’t read anywhere in this thread of anyone making an arguement that it didn’t.
    #96
  17. canoeguy

    canoeguy Long timer

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    To me it says I can find the problem but I can’t fix it without carrying every sensor and entire electronics package with me. Though I guess it might allow you to reset one long enough to get to help...if it works that way.
    #97
  18. High Country Herb

    High Country Herb Adventure Connoiseur

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    I borrowed an early KTM 950SM for a day to go riding in the hills of Tennessee. The owner (an inmate here) said it had basically no computers, fuel injection, or fancy electronics. About 100 hp in a 400+ lb bike. Man, what a great bike that was!

    [​IMG]
    #98
  19. bodine003

    bodine003 Long timer

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    Might want to read Aventeren's fun in the Garage section when his 02 1150 GSA Beemer went into tennis shoe mode in Spokane
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  20. BetterLateThanNever

    BetterLateThanNever Long timer

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    You may smugly quote all the anecdotes you like, but one day, you're going to be able to do as much for your all-mechanical bike as you can for your Commodore 64. I, who do not dwell in the past and am not persuaded by one-off stories, hope to be one of the people who can still ride when that day comes.