Kawasaki W800

Discussion in 'Road Warriors' started by A Knight Who Says Ni, Aug 27, 2010.

  1. CanadianW-800

    CanadianW-800 n00b

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    So u never did the marble mod on your second W? if I read that correctly. Do u see any benefit to doing this ie: pipe heat, hotter running motor ect
  2. White mt guy

    White mt guy Long timer

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    So, I had a tip over on my 2019 cafe and need to replace the tank. I was thinking about changing the color (was never fond of the brown) does any one know if all 2019 and 2020 tanks are interchangeable, including all parts from my old tank to new.
  3. Scrivens

    Scrivens Long timer

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    Made no difference at all to the running of the bike, tappet wear - neither of mine have ever needed adjustment - or the heat etc. The only noticeable difference is that there is less popping in debaffled exhausts on overrun if the hose is blocked. As a well-tuned British 650 twin crackles on the overrun I'm OK with the noise.
  4. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades... Super Supporter

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    Here's a great explanation of the whole thing, including possible issues if the PAIR valve is blocked/removed and the cat convertor left in place.



    Here is the R rated version, but really both informative while being entertaining, if you can "read between the expletives"... it could also make a great drinking game video with shots and beer... :freaky



    I didn't know you could insert that many swear words in one video. :lol3
  5. CanadianW-800

    CanadianW-800 n00b

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    FUCK THE PANDA,S. LMAO!!
    So after watching both it sounds like blocking the hose and leaving the Pair Valve
    plugged in will cause less heat and as an added bonus reduce popping in the exhaust .Dont see any negatives in doing this other than polluting the atmosphere.When he did the test with bike running the Pair valve was unplugged. Would have been interesting to see the same test with Pair valve plugged in and paper over the hose.


    This is off coarse with a totally stock system. As soon as u change pipes, add slip-ons
    ect the rules change.
  6. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades... Super Supporter

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    If there is no catalytic convertor on the exhaust system and, of course, if you want to unnecessarily want to pump out more hydrocarbons into the atmosphere, then there are no negatives.

    More heat isn't a negative in this case. Fact is since both cylinders are likely burning the same temps the golden coloring of the right pipe must be because of the turbulence caused by the sensor, so if you don't eliminate the sensor the pipe will still turn golden due to the turbulent hot exhaust. The other side has laminar flow not having the protrusion of a sensor and it doesn't overheat in one spot.

    The popping is no damage and is purely personal preference. You won't believe how many performance car drivers want the crackle on decel. There are questions in the Vette forums that I've read. They ask how do they get that sound. They will actually reprogram their ECUs to do so. It doesn't always automatically happen on bikes either. I have virtually no crackle from my XSR aftermarket exhaust, because the EFI virtually shuts off fuel flow in all but first and I think second gear. No fuel, no crackle.

    I didn't remove the PAIR valve system from any of my bikes, because it just wasn't worth screwing with them.
  7. red_w800

    red_w800 Been here awhile

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    Just FYI. There is one more additional option to reduce engine temperatures and exhaust gasses temperatures, by putting the Fuel Injection into so called "Open Loop" mode. "Open Loop" mode is the mode when throttle position is not stable (city ride). This is the mode when ECU takes FI map from its pre-programmed memory, ignoring O2 (Lambda) sensor. Once throttle position is relatively unchanged (highway ride), ECU is trying to make the AFR as lean as possible, using O2 sensor output. So, removing both O2 sensors and replacing them with two pulse-generators we will trick ECU to "think" we are in the "Open Loop" mode all the time. Simulated (fake) O2 signal parameters should be as following:

    Zero level - + 0.1V
    High level - + 0.77V
    Length of the pulse - 1 sec
    Duty cycle - 50%

    In case of using "Boosterplug" all above is not necessary, because "Boosterplug" enriches AFR throughout entire range of the ECU input parameters like air/engine temp, TPS/RPM sensor, air pressure, etc.

    For the engines with relatively low compression ratio like 8.4:1 for W800, the discoloration of the pipes is the symptom of the lean AFR, considering all other systems are OK and AIS is off. Even for the single-wall pipes
  8. CanadianW-800

    CanadianW-800 n00b

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    What do u propose for the 2021 models. Called BoosterPlug and Power Commander ,wont work on 2021 and up. Kawasaki and others have programmed ECU and other hardware
    for bike to go into Limpmode and check engine to flash if ANYTHING is modified. Im not sure whats be done, not enough 2021,s out there trying to mod these bikes yet to know.
    I called Dynotech and they confirmed the POWER COMMANDER for 2021 will only adjust timing 2 degrees under 40% throttle.Above that the PC can make changes to the tune.
    Booster plug wont work on 2021 models as per owner. Im currently looking for an ECU of a damaged 2019/2020 model so I can tune this bike the way I want. Its waaaay to lean
    under 40% throttle. Dam tree huggers LOL
  9. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades... Super Supporter

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    So why is only one pipe turning gold and why are the ones everyone has mentioned have been the right side in the same place about 6-8" down from where it should start if purely due to the heat in the head pipe? Seems they both would do so and start at the head, progressing down the pipe, not starting in the middle of it.
  10. red_w800

    red_w800 Been here awhile

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    It is not a rocket science to build the Boosterplug yourself.
    Stock air temp sensor's thermistor R vs T response should be switched as shown in red where R1=R2. It will trick CPU that ambient temp is 20degC cooler, which in turn enriches AFR. It could be obtained by connecting in series additional thermistor with lower value (this is how Boosterplug works) or replacing the stock thermistor with a different one with R vs T response equal to the red.
    Note: the chart shown is not actual W800 R vs T response. It's been used for illustration purposes.

    [​IMG]

    Another approach is to rebuild ECU's FI map completly, which is a real rocket science. At least at the home garage.
  11. red_w800

    red_w800 Been here awhile

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    We don't have enough statistics. We are discussing only two credible cases. In addition, we don't know how the pipe looks inside that area. That is not enough to draw correct explanations. The only thing I can say for sure is that such spots appear as a result of overheating.
  12. red_w800

    red_w800 Been here awhile

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    A minute ago verified on the Kawasaki's web site, that air temperature sensor PN is identical for 2020 and 2021 models: 21176-0048. So, the Boosterplug should work perfectly on the 2021 W800.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
  13. Oilhed

    Oilhed MarkF Supporter

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    Why does blue or gold headers not bother me one bit? As long as it doesn't get pitted or rusty. I'd rather have some color than the fake clamp on covers that look too perfect.
  14. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades... Super Supporter

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    Been plenty of blued pipes over the decades, so clearly it is heat related. My other comment on the cause in this case is pure conjecture based on where people said the sensor was located and some knowledge of fluid dynamics (hot exhaust gasses are fluids as are liquids), that without obstruction fluid develops laminar flow, gasses in layers, higher temp in the center, lower temps to the outside Versus turbulent flow mixing the hot and cold temp gasses increasing temperatures on the outside as the hot gasses now hit the surface instead of flowing smoothly past in layers. That may very likely be what is happening if the O2 sensor is in the pipe in the area of the golden coloring.

    This was kind of made clear in some reading about the cooling systems of bikes, that if the path of flow is too clear no turbulence occurs, the "outer" layer will become a bit insulated and in that case the hotter area, since it is there to pick up heat from the surface it contacts. The point brought out was that coolant flow needed to be turbulent to stir the coolant in around the hot surfaces. If the flow was too "smooth" or fast the flow could become laminar and lose cooling capability in some areas. Kind of made that bit of overhanging head gasket into the water jacket appear to maybe be a bit intentional with purpose. I won't be working to smooth the coolant flow in any of my future work on my LC bikes.

    Even with double wall pipe you may be able to picture that the laminar flow would have the cooler outer layer, considering that exhaust gasses can reach up to 1700°F - high enough to make steel glow cherry red, definitely hot enough to discolor chrome. The double wall pipe works to stop that in laminar flow. But with the turbulence that will cause a hot spot in the inner pipe, which will also work to heat the outer pipe and the conjecture is that the inner heat is enough to heat the outer chromed pipe enough to cause it to turn golden.

    That was the basis for the comment. Now it is up to the W800 owners to provide the statistical proof that the conjecture is or is not true. A place to start... gotta start somewhere.



    I tend to agree, if it's a nice uniform change. The interesting part is how people just love it when stainless and titanium develop the coloring as they "blue". Especially the spectacular rainbow on titanium.

    The clamp on covers make a lot of sense if done well. Some just look bad if not done well or are too large. Some of Harley's concept bikes have the shields that just look too "plastic" because they are big and smooth.
  15. LuciferMutt

    LuciferMutt Rides slow bike slow

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    There are O2 sensors on both pipes, in the same place.
  16. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades... Super Supporter

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    @LuciferMutt Okay, now things change. But something is still going on with the flow of the gasses because everything I said about laminar versus turbulent flow still applies. There is a hot spot there that is causing the coloring.

    Simplest way around it is new head pipes minus sensors. Makes me curious why they would stick the sensors up there instead of under the engine somewhere like many other bikes have done. Mine is about mid-collector on the 2-1, under the engine.
  17. Backlund

    Backlund Long timer

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    The stainless headers on my '17 Thruxton have attained that distinctive 'bronze-ish' heat coloration that is even and expected with these kinds of pipes, but in the W's case, any heat staining on it's double-wall chrome headers is apparently going to be blotchy and unnatural-looking.

    IMG_20200615_072256356_HDR.jpg
    HapHazard likes this.
  18. LuciferMutt

    LuciferMutt Rides slow bike slow

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    Yeah, Scrivens says the earlier, non-USA, EFI W800s had the O2 sensors under the bike in front of the crossover tube. No idea why they moved them.
  19. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades... Super Supporter

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    That would make way more sense from the exhaust point of view. Must not have been as effective as two. Heck, maybe they are doing a digital change on each injector independent of the other. Still would make it nicer if down lower. But hey, a small price to pay to have the cool bike you always wanted, right?
  20. Scrivens

    Scrivens Long timer

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    Might be the above (EURO 4 "effectiveness") as my 2011 and 2012 W800s (only one sensor on the crossover btw) ran pretty much perfect 14.7 AFR at low throttle, not leaned out as it seems the new models are. If you want to find out what is really happening with the EFI, whack on an O2 wideband sensor gauge and see what the readings are.

    It doesn't take high temperature heat to yellow chrome and my guess is that the heat is being transferred to the outer wall by the weld for the sensor and a good quality digital infra-red thermometer will show you the hot spots and temps.