Klim Carlsbad vs Latitude vs Badlands (2018 Models)

Discussion in 'Equipment' started by CardiffKook, Mar 9, 2019.

  1. CardiffKook

    CardiffKook Adventurer

    Joined:
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    Looking at getting a suit for colder/wet weather. I live in SoCal and own a BMW Rallye 3. I am planning a 1 month trip to Alaska in June and think goretex may be the way to go due to rain/cold.

    Yesterday I went to local BMW to try on a bunch of products.


    Here is rundown:
    1. Badlands-. That thing is a tank. Unbelievably heavy and bulky. I could not imagine wrestiling a bike off-road with that thing on. That said- I am sure it would be the safest in a get off (because you are in a tank.). Better armor than latitude and Carlsbad. I really kind of ruled it out due to comfort but feel free to talk me into it. Also its super pricey over other options.

    2. Latitude- nice jacket. A little less bulky/crunchy than Badlands. Alot lighter. It has 800 dd fabric so would probably serve better than Carlsbad in a high speed get off. Fit was whatever. I guess it is geared more towards street riding than Carlsbad. I am mostly on street like most but I do love getting off-road (but I would probably prefer Rallye in heavy off road situation as I don't plan on riding off-road if it's raining a ton.

    3. Carlsbad-. This was the most comfy and lightest (not sure if light=good though in a get-off. I mean, jeans and a t-shirt is also light and comfy.) The cut was slimmer which works well for me. It only has 500 dd fabric so my concern would be a highway get off but I have no idea if it would be an issue.

    Primary use of this jacket is long distance touring with some light off-road mixed in during trips.

    I would like the following:
    1. Something that compliments my Rallye 3 and fills a different need- mostly wet weather and colder rides (35-75 F.)
    2. Something that is safe! E.g. I don't mind spending more if it means I will avoid injury.
    3. Comfy fit.
    4. Good for multiday/week trips (this jacket will never be worn around town as I have Rallye for that which is light and breaths well for socal.

    I feel I am really stuck between Carlsbad and Latitude but I lean towards Carlsbad. My only concern is high speed get off on road with Carlsbad as this is primarily for multiday/week trips with long highway stretches. Does the 500 dd in Carlsbad vs 800dd in Latitude really matter in a high speed get off or not really?

    This was helpful comparison of Carlsbad pant vs latitude- honestly I didn't even consider pant differences when looking yesterday.

    https://advrider.com/f/threads/compare-klim-latitude-to-carlsbad-pants.1214784/

    Thanks for any insight!
    #1
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  2. Aircooled6racer

    Aircooled6racer Been here awhile

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    I would say get the one that fits you better. You want the armor to stay put in a off. If the armor moves around it will in a fall and not in the correct spot you need it to be in. From what you are saying the Latitude maybe better suited for your ride. I have a gen 2 Misano Latitude and really like it. I like pit zips and it has those plus the other vents. The horizontal back vent would be better if it was the new design with two vertical vents so it does not get blocked by a backpack. Another option for you maybe a rain jacket to go over your other jacket. I use a Marmot Precip for one of my other jackets. easy to stop and put on a rain jacket but not so easy for pants. Lastly remember layers is the way to go since you can tune your gear for the ride you are on and also if it changes mid way through.
    #2
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  3. HeliMark

    HeliMark Been here awhile Supporter

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    I have the Carlsbad jacket. I liked the Latitude as it is more "fitted", and not as bulky. It is also warmer, although not by much. I went with the Carlsbad because I can move around easier, and stand up easier. Due to neck surgery, I can not twist my neck as much, and need to twist my body more to see behind. The Carlsbad is better for that. Also, I have broad shoulders for my size, and I would have to get a bigger size of the Latitude to be comfortable.

    The way I understand it, the Latitude is a "touring" jacket, where you really are not moving around as much, and the Carlsbad is the "off road" jacket that is designed for the rider that is standing/sitting and twisting a lot.
    #3
  4. motocopter

    motocopter ˙˙˙ƃuᴉɥɔɹɐǝS

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    Carlsbad could replace an old Joe Rocket jacket for me. The Rocket jacket has been the best go-to jacket for ten years now. It never had much technology for materials by today's standards. It's been coast to coast with my former C14 in during the Fall, Winter, and Spring seasons. It's been strapped to the back of the 690ER (sans padding) as just-in-case jacket in '17. I've layered up under the Rocket jacket and it's also had a heated liner underneath. So, the Carlsbad could work for use as described. One thing I don't really like about the Klim jackets is the use of hook and loop at sleeves and neck closures.
    #4
  5. elcabong

    elcabong Been here awhile

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    I have owned both jackets. Actually 2 Latitudes and 1 Carlsbad. Now I own the BMW Rallye 2018 jacket. I also live in So. Cal.

    Here is my 2 cents worth. I won't go into Gore-Tex. That's one of the reasons to buy a Klim jacket.

    Fit/Finish:

    2018 version Latitude is more roomy especially in the gut with the ability to adjust the torso as well as being able to open the side gussets for more layering and comfort. The 2018 version has better vents. The sleeve vents for example, are taken from the design of the Carlsbad albeit a little smaller. The chest storage pockets can also be used as vents. The shoulder and back vents have changed from the 2015 version and are far superior. Each vent is accessible with a gloved hand so you can moderate your body temp without stopping. The collar is lower than the previous Latitude and Carlsbad. The new version is very comfortable and has loops to keep the collar open on hot days. The Latitude (as well as the Carlsbad) comes with D30 CE-1 armor. The pockets are large enough to upgrade to CE-2. The fabric is heavier and more durable than the Carlsbad so high speed get offs on pavement may be safer. I've been in 100 degree temps in the desert and as long as you are moving the ventilation is adequate.

    The Carlsbad is a slimmer fit than the Latitude in the same size and there are no torso adjustments. As you noted, the fabric is much lighter in weight and less crunchy than the Latitude however after break-in the Latitude is just as pliable as the Carlsbad. Larger vents on the sleeves, shoulders and back make this a better off-road jacket. The collar is stiff (for me) and I tried several times to mash it down and make it softer to no avail but it does have the capability to keep it open on hot days. The Carlsbad is a no-nonsense jacket however if you plan on keeping your Rallye jacket than this is more of a redundant jacket IMHO.

    You may want to look at the Klim APEX jacket. This is an older model but still a kick-ass one. It's a Sport-Touring jacket, Gore-Tex 3 layer, D30 Level 2 back protector (not sure about the shoulder and elbow). The venting scheme in the sleeves (similar to the Latitude and Carlsbad), small shoulder/bicep and a huge torso. Again, with Klim all accessible without stopping. The Apex is shorter in length because it's made for touring. Right now, it's the same price as the Latitude (at Revzilla).

    About my BMW Rallye 2018 - As mentioned earlier, keep your Rallye jacket for the Summer and hot weather. I made a mistake by thinking this jacket would be the only one to have. I was wrong. I also gave up Gore Tex for more pliable comfort and the Inner/outer rain/wind liner would still protect me from the elements. I have been testing this in cold weather - I mean down to the low to mid 30's by traveling to Lone Pine, DV, Sequoia and with proper layering it's good. With heated gear, better. Perhaps when the hot weather is upon us I will love the jacket with its massive venting. The problem with the venting is the lack of accessibility while riding. You can't get to the rear panel, it's hard to snap open the chest and torso vents with a gloved hand (may be with practice I will) and it's very hard to moderate body temperatures without fumbling with them. Dangerous while moving. I suppose I have been spoiled by Klim. I do love this jacket because of the fabric (very soft - yet durable) and its comfortable but no way this will be a one-do all jacket. BMW says it's not and I know this to be true but hey, here in So.Cal. it doesn't get cold and it doesn't rain (yeah, right). I am very sorry I sold my Latitude but my only gripe with Klim is their jacket sizing. You have to try on each model and for some reason, the sleeves are always long for me. My next jacket will be the Apex. Totally different fit but I'll keep my Rallye for the hot weather.

    Sorry for the long winded response. You got more than 2 cents.
    #5
  6. CardiffKook

    CardiffKook Adventurer

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    So, I'm OP and I have all three models in my possession now for a detailed review.

    Interestingly, when I first tried all of these on at the dealer, for my purposes, essentially long distance touring in varying climates, I ranked them the following:
    1. Carlsbad
    2. Latitude
    3. Badlands

    The reason I think I ranked them as such is because the Carlsbad is by far the lightest/most comfortable. Ironically, having spent more time thinking about them, researching, and now wearing around the house and sitting on the bike (have to return the one's I don't want, so take it with a grain of salt as it isn't real world) I may need adjust my rankings.

    Now I am leaning more towards:
    1. Badlands
    2. Latitude
    3. Carlsbad

    Yep- exact opposite. I know. I'm nuts. To add fuel to the fire I think I actually like the Badlands for the same reason I didn't like it before: it's a tank.

    Here is a more detailed explanation:
    1. Carlsbad- Carlsbad is the most comfy by far. It is the lightest material and the least abrasion resistant of the 3. 500DD compared to 840 in the badlands/Latitude. It feels like a ski jacket. Actually, it is lighter than my goretex ski jacket. Seems great, but then I realized, "I am getting this to protect me from a potential spill going 5-80 MPH. Shouldn't it be more bulky than my ski jacket? It also has CE level one armor and I would prefer 2 which is in the Badlands (no idea if it matters but I error on safe side.) . You could upgrade for $90. Real good venting. One layer gortex (not sure if it matters.) Has top load pockets (like) and hand warmer pockets don't have a zipper, but a button (I like zippers to make sure nothing falls out.)
    2. Latitude- This jacket is sweet. Heavier and seems more heavy duty. Limited pockets- but that may not be a problem (do i really need 8 pockets or whatever on the badlands?) I do wish it had top load pockets in addition to handwarmer. Not sure I am a fan of the goat leather on the elbows- good for abrasion but not sure how it would look after a slow speed get off off-road on gravel or something. Biggest potential issue I see is significantly less vents than Badlands or Carlsbad- wonder how that would translate to warm weather/slow riding.
    3. Badlands- Tank. Heavy as hell. That's why I hated it the fist time. Then I thought more. Wouldn't I want to be in a tank if I had a get-off? It's definitely a pain to get on/off, and will probably knock your stool over at a rest-stop, but for what I am getting it for (long days, touring, where it only goes on/off a couple times a day) do I care? I would definitely not want this for a "round town" jacket or a commuting jacket. It seems like too much. I would like it when I am in a remote area and dump it with no one around. I think it gives you the best chance to eliminate/reduce injury. Price you pay for that (besides the obscene price tag) is it's heavy AF. Not sure how much it would matter riding. It does scrunch up a a bit in the neck when sitting, but you can just unzip from the bottom. It also has CE 2 and bigger pads than the other. It just seems more substantial.

    I think my #1 priority is safety. I should say, I am in a position to spend a few hundred more bucks for what may be a bit more protection. If you are not, I would say either is probably good. If this was me five years ago, I wouldn't dream of spending $1k on jacket and $700 for pants.

    My main issue with the Badlands is "would I regret this for walking around towns?" When I tour I like to stretch the legs a bit in town. It's nice to not have to secure the jacket. I could walk around with carlsbad and latitude. Not sure if I would want the badlands tank on for a 45 minute walk. Any experiences there?

    I probably wouldn't wear any of these if i knew I was only going to be in warm temps like those found is socal where I live. I would opt for my BMW Rallye 3. It requires a liner- but getting wet when it is 80F+ out is less of an issue than when it is 50F and I would dry out faster. Again, I am looking for long haul jacket for varying climates (35-80) to complement my rally 3.

    Anyways- since I have put an obscene, ridiculous, stupid amount of overthought on this I thought I would share with other people who also spend way too much time thinking/deciding when in reality any of the 3 would probably do just fine:jack

    So, anyone have any input on walking around town for 20/30 minutes with a Badlands on?
    #6
  7. slink

    slink Been here awhile

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    I’m going through a similar comparison of the Klim Latitude, Carlsbad, and Apex. The Apex is the same price as the Latitude but with 3-layer Goretex, better armor, more pockets, and from what people have told me, better ventilation. It’s also a shorter cut if I remember right. The Apex is not as heavy as the Badlands. Sorry if I’ve muddied the waters for your decision.
    #7
  8. Riverguide

    Riverguide Adventurer Supporter

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    I appreciate the detailed commentary on these jackets and sympathize with the previous post by OP. I have been in the market for a goretex touring/commuting jacket for some time. The design philosophy of Klim makes complete sense to me as someone who has spent a lot of time in the outdoors (and in my younger years worked in the outdoor industry as well as outdoor gear retail) ie 2 or 3 layer bonded goretex as opposed to a separate removable liner. To get to the point, I recently tried on the 2019 latitude (liking the new red/black colour scheme) and the Carlsbad. Can’t justify the high cost of the badlands especially as I’m paying with devalued cdn $. For sizing I’m 15.5 neck, 42 chest 32 waist. According to Klim’s sizing I should be medium. Bottom line: the latitude is snug in the arms and chest, not much room for an insulative layer and the large is way too big. While I could go with medium, my real concern however was the massive neck opening. Even using the neck adjustment cord it was still huge and nowhere near close to blocking wind or precipitation. As someone posted on the revzilla site, this would defeat the point of the jacket being waterproof as rain would absolutely come in through the top like a hose. I tried the Carlsbad. Same problem but with inferior armour and abrasion resistance. So unfortunately I had to pass on both. I really wanted the latitude to work but having tried klim’s mesh jacket last year (induction) in medium and large, and neither fit, I apparently am not built to fit their jackets. I do fit aStars and revit so I will keep looking. Hope that offers more perspective.
    #8
  9. stravis

    stravis Adventurer

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    I just went through the same decision process last week. I was leaning toward the Carlsbad for the same reasons some have listed here, it’s lighter and more comfortable. I ended up buying the Lattitude jacket and pants because I saw a you tube video where the reviewer (I think it was a revzilla video) made the comment that the Carlsbad, being more geared toward off-road, is designed to take more low speed off-road offs, while the lattitude, being a touring jacket, is designed to handle a higher speed 70+ mph fall. That’s not to say that the Carlsbad won’t protect you at high speed, nor that the Lattitude won’t work fine off-road, but the Carlsbad is 80% off-road 20% on, and the Lattitude is 80% on road 20% off. While I liked the Carlsbad more, the Lattitude is more in line with the type of riding I do.

    Just got the jacket yesterday and the pants should be here tomorrow. I’m hopeful that with some wear the jacket, and presumably the pants, will lose some of the stiffness and move better. Maybe someone with the Lattitude will comment about how they break in.
    #9
  10. Aircooled6racer

    Aircooled6racer Been here awhile

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    I have the second generation Latitude misano and think it is almost perfect. I would change the horizontal back vent to two vertical vents like on the new one. Alot of the choices for jacket will depend on where and what type of riding you will be doing. Hot and humid will take something different than hot and dry. In the end it will be what you feel you need to be safe and comfortable on your journeys.
    #10
  11. elcabong

    elcabong Been here awhile

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    Both will break in and the stiffness will disappear especially the jacket. Very comfortable suit. I love the pants.
    #11
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  12. AdamChandler

    AdamChandler Ascending n00b Supporter

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    Badlands is a very serious jacket. I agree with others. Buy whatever fits you the best and is the most comfortable. Being fat, I find everything I own from Klim to have some weird fitment thing that makes me uncomfortable but they're all so well built and service has been so good that I keep buying them. right now I have

    Adventure Rally
    Badlands
    Induction
    Dakar
    Blade (two of these actually)
    Plans to purchase the Hardanger for commuting

    Overkill but the suits actually don't have many overlapping points.
    #12
  13. mdsn969

    mdsn969 Long timer Supporter

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    Just a data point, take it for what it is worth.

    I HAD the Carlsbad and it leaked like a sieve!!! Other wise I really liked the jacket :-)
    #13
  14. 0theories

    0theories Enthusiastically Skeptical... Supporter

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    Where in Socal did you go to try these on? Trying to make same choice, but nowhere around here carries them all (or really, even some...). I'm in central cal, but can make the trip to actually try before I buy. Thanks!
    #14
  15. CardiffKook

    CardiffKook Adventurer

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    Buy the all from Revx
    Buy them all from Revzilla. Send back the ones you don't want with their $7.99 flat rat return.

    I literally bought jacket/pant in for each style (even two colors for one because I decided I wante Hi-Vis), tried them on for a bit around the house, and sent back the ones I didn't want to keep. Shipping to you is free. The return shipping on the box (which weighed 32lbs and had 3 jackets, and two pairs of pants) cost me $7.99.

    For a purchase of this price I think it's worth it to spend more time than just 5 minutes at a store with a sales attendant standing over you.

    Good luck
    #15
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  16. Khantahr

    Khantahr Adventurer

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    They specifically ask that you don't do this. Don't make them regret their return policy.
    #16
  17. CardiffKook

    CardiffKook Adventurer

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    I considered this when making my purchase actually. They say, don't order more than 2 of the same or similiar items with intention to return. I ordered three (and later changed my color choice when I saw it in person.)

    Here is the rub:
    1. Revzilla has no physical store./overhead So what most people do is go to try thing on the local dealership, then order from Revzilla. Not exactly fair to the dealer. I try not do this, but it happens sometimes because you say "i want to check it out" then decide to buy later. That happened for me here as I had actually tried them on a few weeks earlier at a dealer but wasn't going to drive the hour+ when I decided 3 weeks later to buy after watching all the Revzilla review videos. So who deserved the sale?
    2. Revzilla, until April 1 2019, charged no CA sales tax. I bought mine right before they started charging. That means that buying the badlands jacket pant combo that cost $1,699 from Revzilla would save you $131.68 in taxes if you forgo buying local. Legal, yes. A semi unfair competitive advantage, yes.

    I guess its up to you to choose which is the right way to go. I chose that since revzilla had great videos that ultimately swayed me, and would pay my $7.99 return fee they would get the sale over my local who: 1. Has significantly higher overhead to pay which people then use to try things on 2. Collect CA sales tax. 3. Didn't have as much info.

    I think Revzilla did alright with the $1700 sale to me.

    It is an interesting ethical dilemma though. Thanks for bringing it up.
    #17
  18. HeliMark

    HeliMark Been here awhile Supporter

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    Chaparral in San Bernardino usually has a good selection of the jackets to try. What they don't have, the BMW dealers in the area do.
    #18
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  19. 0theories

    0theories Enthusiastically Skeptical... Supporter

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    Thanks guys. I'm pretty sold on the latitude. As much as I want to be a 20/80 rider (on/off), if I'm honest with myself I'm definitely an 80/20 rider :rofl. It would be nice to try them both on though. Light and not bulky is good... I'm also pretty sure I'm a medium (although the last leather jacket I got from RevZilla I was an XL :hmmmmm) I'm 5'10" 170lbs lean-ish... Think I'll order a latitude and a Carlsbad in medium and see what happens. San Bernardino is far :lol3
    #19
  20. AllSeasonRider

    AllSeasonRider Wandering, maybe a little lost...

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    I also live in SoCal and am also going to Alaska this summer. I didn't have any other adv-style gear, so I was looking for a "do everything" (commuting, touring, day rides, etc) and ended up with the Carlsbad. I have few complaints (hardly even worth mentioning, really). The lower-spec abrasion resistance had me concerned, but it is double-layered in the shoulders and elbows for what it's worth, and uses a special material (I forget the sales pitch, but it's not just plain Cordura). I don't really worry about it holding up in a street crash. I think a lot of folks get hung up on being able to slide on asphalt for 100 yards and not have the jacket be ruined. For me, I'm ok if it ruins the jacket, and also think it's unlikely that you'd slide that long in a crash on the street before either sliding off the road or sliding into something else. I've crashed twice on the road, and both times I slid on pavement for less than 10 feet. Factor in the comfort of wearing it and the price point compared to the other options and I was sold.

    Where did it leak? This is the first report I've heard of it not being water tight. Mine's not leaked, but I haven't exactly stress tested it, yet.
    #20