KLX 250 2018 Next Gen

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by asis, Nov 12, 2017.

  1. AloneInTheHills

    AloneInTheHills Been here awhile

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    +1 on @RC Pilot 's comment. I put in a about 1.25 quarts, run if for 30 seconds to let the filter absorb some, then let it drain down for a few minutes. Then top off to the sight glass upper line.

    [Edit to note 1 quart is 0.946 liters, so remember they're not 1:1]
  2. Mr. C

    Mr. C I need more bike time!!

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    Thanks for the info. After filling and letting the oil get to the new filter, it took a total of around 1.3 L of oil to bring it to the top line on the sight glass. I am assuming it is just a typo in the manual as compared to me having a super-sized engine!

    Thanks again for the confirmations.
  3. NJ-Brett

    NJ-Brett Brett

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  4. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades... Super Supporter

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    I caught the Engine Masters episode 32 How Oil Kills Power show on oil level causing horsepower loss and lower oil pressure. Seems when oil is full to the point of the crank shaft splashing in it causing it to be aerated (frothing) and causing a drop in pressure at higher rpm. I will run lower on the sight glass than the top mark, more toward the lower middle. Still within the good zone and less likely to have a foaming problem.

    They had a deep oil pan running I think 7 quarts of oil. Dropping one quart showed more horsepower and less oil pressure drop, dropping another quart to five quarts gained more power and had less pressure drop again. They didn't do four quarts. For a car their recommendation was to fill the new pan with water to the point where it has maximum volume without hitting the crank, just below the windage tray, that is the amount to use. It's a shame it's not that easy to see best level with a bike.

    So I hedge my bets running about half the window level.
  5. lpfm1990

    lpfm1990 Been here awhile

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    I wouldn’t take that to heart completely, dyno pulls are different then real world pulls, ask any drag racer, g-force will throw the oil to the back of the pan and oil starve a motor, and even circle track, over a prolonged run, oil can get “stuck” in the top end, kill oil pressure and wreck main bearings. I’m pretty sure on a small motor like this, you’re not talk “huge” number differences verses the risk of oil starvation
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  6. AloneInTheHills

    AloneInTheHills Been here awhile

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    Some of the issues that engines face with oil level and turbulence is related to crankcase breather design. If the air can't flow, bad things happen. I believe Bill Blue suggests drilling out the breather port a bit on the 351 kit. I've seen reports of issues on some Harley engines related to how oil behaves in the case. Generally you should be able to top off a properly designed engine IMO, but the more the crank has to move through the more drag is present.

    Thicker viscosity can also be a bit of a drag on power and theoretically running running very little or no oil would allow the crank to spin free and make more power, but that probably ends badly.
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  7. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades... Super Supporter

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    That's why it's about half way.

    [​IMG]

    • If the motorcycle has just been used, wait several minutes for all the
    oil to drain down .
    • Situate the motorcycle so that it is perpendicular to the ground, and
    check the engine oil level through the oil level gauge [ B ] . The oil level
    should come up between the upper [C] and lower [D] level lines.
    * l f the oil level is too high, remove the excess oil, using a syringe or
    some other suitable device.
    * l f the oil level is too low, add the correct amount of oil through the oil
    filler opening. Use the same type and makes of oil that is already in the
    engine.

    I should tell you most any drag or circle track racer would have baffles in the oil pan to keep oil from sloshing all to the back. Top level uses dry sump, to eliminate all oil frothing.

    My point really is that going too much is no wiser than going too low. After all Kawasaki's manual says to draw off any overfill. If the crank is slinging the oil around and the rod beating it like making scrambled eggs it can be a bad thing. So I go for the middle which would reduce the likelihood of the crank riding in the oil and is still within what the manufacturer would recommend.
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  8. Rogue_Ryder

    Rogue_Ryder

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    1/2 on the window is perfectly fine and will never hurt a bike.

    You need to watch the 2nd episode on oil pans. In part of the 2nd episode they show a decent Milodon pan that they get max power only running 4.5qts, but do say they'd never run oil that low in an actual car. The whole point of the pan video in ep 32 is keeping oil off the crank counter weights (the drag the oil on the weights and frothing are bad). The 2nd video they have a big $$$$ Moroso pan with bumped out sides that gives them 20hp! but that's 20hp on a Big Block Chevy with 470? Cubic Inch displacement and already makes like 800hp, 20hp for $1000 is pretty good, but a % wise it's not a huge gain. Running a pint less of oil in a 250cc engine making might change power output by a fraction of a hp.

    On these Dyno pulls If you look at where these power losses and gains are, it's way up in the RPM range (5500-7000+), in a street car you'd always want to run your oil level at 100% (not overfill, but at the max capacity) sure you're losing power, but you're not driving at 5500+ rpm all the time either. The thing about Engine Masters (which has some great info BTW and a good myth busting show) is they look at Max Power numbers. It's just what these Dyno guys and drag racers do, they show a 750 CFM Holley on a 350 is the "best carb" and even "beats EFI", but on the street that 750 Holley equipped 350 will get worse fuel economy and won't have the driveabilty of a 650 cfm (even with equal jetting and AFRs the greater air velocity through the 650 should have better driveability). Same story with the oil level, the extra ponies you see on the dyno don't buy you anything, it could even lead to a destroyed engine, like all the B.O.P. Engines those guys destroy on their other shows (All 455s seem to pump all the oil out of the pan and starve the bearings of oil). Like others have said serious race cars use a dry sump or a windage tray (lots of bikes use dry sump too with oil in the frame).

    Keeping max oil level will help your oil last longer and your engine running cooler. Oil cools, cleans and lubricates your engine and on a dirt bike that sees all different kinds of angles and run hard I want the max oil level no less no more, even if I can get away with running less.
  9. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades... Super Supporter

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    Thanks for the lecture dad.

    My emphasis wasn't on horsepower loss, it was about oil froth that causes drop in oil pressure in mid-upper rpm. That was part of their emphasis in what I was watching and relating to my motorcycles. If there is oil wrapping on the crank and causing oil frothing if running at the higher level that can be reduced by a slight drop in oil level it could be worth it. It sure as heck isn't to gain .5 hp in a 250cc motorcycle. The part that I got was the drop in oil pressure due to frothing. All the oil in the world won't help if it is turned into a frothy foamy mess. Won't really hurt the crank shaft bearings on a ball/roller bottom end, but might not be so good on the cam bearing surfaces. And again, half way on the oil fill window is within Kawasaki's range.

    As for temperature, I'm riding a bike that I can't remember the last time the fan came on, oil temp light never, plus I did put a Thermo-bob on it to have more uniform cylinder temperature when the thermostat was closed or still restricting flow, so I really doubt running 0.1 qt lower is going to roach out the engine. Especially when you consider it is more oil per engine size than those big blocks (500ci = 8100cc, 250cc = 15ci) and the engine is running a ball bearing/roller bearing crank set up. Plus the bike is liquid cooled with twin good size radiators and a fan (most pure off roaders don't have fans). Not seeing temperature as too much an issue.

    What I got from the Engine Masters would be if I did a hi-perf engine I'd put a bigass pan on it with baffles, maybe like 9 qt, and run 7 qt. Plenty of oil and definitely away from the crank.

    By the way, have you ever seen a motorcycle have engine failure due to oil wearing out? I worked in a dealership for around 22 years total and never saw an oil failure, saw lack of oil and on the XRs saw oil starvation due to incorrect installation of the filter, but never ever saw oil wear out and cause engine failure. In fact Mobil 1 was introduced and claimed to do 15,000 miles between changes, although they backed off that claim because the consumers did not believe it. Seems now they do. Another funny thing - the manufacturers seem to feel changing the filter every other oil change is fine. Sure few do that, but the manufacturers clearly must have tested things to make that spec. Another thing we saw was with oil testing standard Kendall car oil run in a Gold Wing was totally serviceable for a lot more miles, in spite of the old school "every 3000 miles" thing.
  10. V0R2G0

    V0R2G0 Been here awhile

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    Just heard that the Klx250s is discontinued. Speculation from a dealer that it will become a 300 street legal. Maybe announced in July. Anybody else heard something like this?
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  11. ag_streak

    ag_streak Tiene Ruta Cuarenta? Supporter

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    No but t sounds like it'll be one of the four bikes under the cover in the teaser photo! :freaky
  12. mousitsas

    mousitsas Long timer

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    Makes sense, since the 230 is out and the euro 5 emissions regulation is imminent. My guess is that the crfl will also grow to 300.
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  13. lpfm1990

    lpfm1990 Been here awhile

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    Kinda why I’m also holding out for the July release before I really get serious in looking for a bike for next year
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  14. klaviator

    klaviator Long timer Supporter

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    Picked up a 2020 250 yesterday. It's replacing the KLR650 I sold last year.

    [​IMG]

    Here's what I'm planning as far as farkles.

    Skid plate
    Luggage rack
    footpegs
    Enduro bags - probably Nelson Rigg
    Tank Bag - probably Nelson Rigg
    Maybe some hand guards, it not then carry spare levers.

    Larger tank - not now but maybe later.

    Any suggestions on the farkles
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  15. Topher749

    Topher749 Been here awhile

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    I replied over on the Kawasaki forum but for other people:

    Never found out what was going on with the clutch. I changed the oil, looked fine, disconnected the cable from both ends, felt fine. Oiled the cable and cleaned up the levers. When I reassembled everything, I had to remove some slack out of the cable. Not sure if that was from taking everything apart but I didn't change the adjustment that is in the middle of the cable. Coincidence?

    I like the MCM. The bike seems to be running great. Not sure it's mind blowing but defiantly better than stock. No down sides that I see.

    Toph
  16. Topher749

    Topher749 Been here awhile

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  17. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades... Super Supporter

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    Can only expect so much from a 250... right? :-)
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  18. Mr. C

    Mr. C I need more bike time!!

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    Another handle bar question. Sorry!

    I don't think I need risers, but I do know I need the bars to be more forward. It just doesn't feel right when I stand with the stock bars.

    Have people found that the bars with less sweep cure the positioning problem, or do I need risers that move the bar forward? I know this is a personal "feel" sort of thing, but I thought I would ask in case someone out there has found happiness with a certain bend of bar without getting risers to push everything forward.

    Thanks.
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  19. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades... Super Supporter

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    Did you rotate them forward? Might be all that's needed depending on how tall you are. I have to rotate all mine back with a short reach.

    Plus you need to do some testing to figure exactly where you need the bars. What may feel perfect standing up may feel wrong in a regular standing position - realize off road racers crouch, not stand bolt upright - and vice versa. You may need to look for a compromise position. Then decide if you need less sweep back and if you need more rise.

    Then buy the bars that should suit your placement. Why bother with expensive risers when you can do a pair of high bars or even ATV bars, which may get as high as 4" rise. Go to a site like Renthal and see what the specifications are, usually metric. You can interpret which bar may have the right pull back and figure about how much rise you need.

    Or if you only need a couple inches of rise added, riser blocks are dirt cheap, under $20. Here's an Amazon link to one with a variety of rises with the various dimensions needed to assure fit.

    No way I'd spend the money on the big Rox set up when some simple bar choices take care of the problem. The risers cost about as much as good bars. Besides if you ride a KLX off road you will eventually have to replace bent bars... :p3rry So you are going to eventually get a better pair. :nod
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  20. Topher749

    Topher749 Been here awhile

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    Part 1

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