KTM 2002 Tech Bulletin on Spokes

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by meat popsicle, Oct 6, 2005.

  1. woody's wheel works

    woody's wheel works Built to Last

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    like i wrote before,,,i found the tool handy to give me sense of what 4-5Nm FELT like and SOUNDED like,,,on lubed/cleaned new components,,,akin to people tuning their musical instruments,,,if you know the sound of 4-5 Nm on the spokes of your wheel (because 4-5Nm will sound different depending on spoke gauge/length and rim diameter),,,you will be consistently more accurate to depend on all the spokes sounding the same as the 4-5 Nm sounding reference point than to true your wheel to the click of the torque wrench,,,,

    it ONLY measures the resistance of the nipple to the torque wrench!!!....get some corrosion/dirt/stuff like that...you'll get that 4-5Nm reading much sooner,,,you'll think it's ok,,,your rim will be true and the final test...do ALL the spokes sound the same???? ie doing the same amount of work???....the odds are against it happening

    [I always thought spokes after they had passed the initial bedding in process became loose because they were coming undone in the same way that any bolt on a bike comes undone due to vibration etc and needs to be periodically re-torqued/tightened.[/QUOTE]


    they come undone,,,because somewhere along the way,,incredible forces stretch the loosest links in the rim/nipple/spoke/hub confiquration,,,excel rims with little nipples are notorious for constantly needing to tighten spokes,,,all the new excels come with much bigger nipples,,, ie larger surface area /less sag,,,,certain spokes stretch/crack/fatique more readily than others,,,certain hubs and rims do the same,,,,,hence the advice/admonishment to constantly monitor the tune/tightness of your spokes
    #21
  2. meat popsicle

    meat popsicle Ignostic

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    :uhoh

    KTM is replacing the front DID with an Excel rim in the Recall Campaign mentioned previously in this thread; how would I know if they used "little nipples"? :ear

    ps - I like little nipples so this logic goes against my usual sensibilities. :evil
    #22
  3. Nom de Guerre

    Nom de Guerre Long timer

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    Well thanks to Katoom_950, I found out that I am on the list for a new wheel too. Thanks, KTM, for letting me know about this :scratch

    I went down to my local KTM Dealer, and they hadn't heard about this recall either. Apparently there's no mention of it in the "Dealership section" of the KTM website. Hmmm.

    I gave a printout of the recall bulletin to the service manager, and he wrote me up for the new wheel, and said he'd get in touch with the Regional Dealer Rep to see what's what.

    Thanks to Katoom_950 for getting the word out! :thumb

    I'll let you know how it all shakes out.
    #23
  4. Drif10

    Drif10 Accredited Jackass

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    Did the same with my dealer last week. He looked up on the dealer net, found nothing.

    So he got a copy of what I got from katoom950. :lol3

    Think there's gonna be a run on these things?
    #24
  5. desmonc

    desmonc Bike Rider

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    I agree which is why I clean and lube all the spoke nipples and wiggle them up and down a few times to free them before checking the torque, which I do every 1000 km so they never get a chance to get really gummed up.
    The rear wheel seems to always finish up true after tightening with the torque wrench but the front always finishes up with lateral distortion in a couple of spots and some of the spokes need to be either tightened or loosened 1/4 to 1/2 to make it true, this should still put them in the 5Nm +or-1Nm range.
    With the musical instrument analogy it is very easy to tune guitar strings too tight, all the strings will be in tune relative to each other but produce a higher note and will wear holes in your fingers quicker because of the additional force that needs to be applied.
    For an expert like yourself listening to the spokes is easy but for an amateur this means tapping them with exactly the same amount of force in the same spot 36 times, not easy.
    #25
  6. woody's wheel works

    woody's wheel works Built to Last

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    all late model ktms come with the same sized nipples front an rear ,,bigger than the old excel nipples smaller than the ones on current excels and my SUPERLACE wheels/rims,,,for moderate riding they are fine

    i like em ALL,,,and you have no worries mate,,,it's just your toomer that loves BIG NIPPLES
    #26
  7. woody's wheel works

    woody's wheel works Built to Last

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    what i believe i said is you want to tune them to the sound of the spoke that you had an accurate torque wrench reading on,,,so thats like someone with a tuning flute /fork or that electric thinga mijigi and you tune that string to that vibration,,,if that's the ''4-5Nm vibration'' ,i can then check the other spokes to the vibration of the 'master tuned spoke'',,,do you follow my drift????

    then they should all be in sync,,,and since ''things equal to same things are equal''..ie:the 4-5Nm vibration,,, you can be sure that if your wheel is running true at this point,,,that all your spokes are working fairly equally
    #27
  8. katoom_950

    katoom_950 Life, 2 short 4 traffic

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    Bump.

    Guy's, I will need your e-mail address in order to send the documents or alternatively, do you have an e-mail list for the LC4 Adventure owners Meat Popsicle?

    Good luck folks

    katoom_950
    #28
  9. woody's wheel works

    woody's wheel works Built to Last

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    here's mine,,,,,and thanks,,,woody@woodyswheelworks.com
    #29
  10. woody's wheel works

    woody's wheel works Built to Last

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    #30
  11. meat popsicle

    meat popsicle Ignostic

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    that is a level of organization that we have not reached; or they did not share the list with me... :lol3

    i bet regionally there are some with many email addresses. alternatively, I could throw the documents in my Yahoo Briefcase which is linked in the Index Thread. Plenty of free room in there that should last for awhile. :D

    Here it is: http://f2.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/bc...cglobal.net/lst?&.dir=/public&.src=bc&.view=l

    Lots of stuff in there so take a look and help yourself. :wave
    #31
  12. meat popsicle

    meat popsicle Ignostic

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    Ahem, 5-6Nm is the spec.

    Let's stop that trick of the light and too much caffeine, she said... :uhoh
    #32
  13. meat popsicle

    meat popsicle Ignostic

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    So the replacement Excel that KTM is trading for our recalled DID setup will have larger nipples - its an Excel thing not a KTM choice. Gotcha; thanks.

    Now if only they would be sports and do the rear at the same time... I feel unbalanced with the rear DID and small nipples staying on there. :uhoh
    #33
  14. Nom de Guerre

    Nom de Guerre Long timer

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    According to the recall notice, they are swapping the whole wheel out. If I understand the notice correctly, the original hubs are drilled with an inferior angle (from an engineering standpoint) for the spokes, which is part of the problem with the original wheel.

    It seems the whole wheel is to be replaced.

    Thanks for the offer, Woody. Since the ball is already rolling at my local KTM delaership, I'll just wait it out.
    #34
  15. woody's wheel works

    woody's wheel works Built to Last

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    i was only using that 4-5Nm as a symbolic example,,,tis the spec on all the bmw x-laced wheels FYI,,,,and on the superlaced wheels its double that,,,

    and thanks for the data[​IMG]

    ps ,,,,it's good to see you guys are keeping me on my toes[​IMG]
    #35
  16. woody's wheel works

    woody's wheel works Built to Last

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    FYI,,,,there are rims sold to the public and then there are rim speced out to the manufacturers needs,,,,the publicly sold Excel rims have the upgraded holes and matching Excel nipples,,,

    i am almost positive that if you get a wheel assy from KTM it will have the oem sized nipples in it,,,not to worry we can always upgrade it,,,blueprint it,,,you guys should get a voucher to spend wherever ya want it and get your ideal set -up for just a lil extra$$$......now there's an idea[​IMG]
    #36
  17. meat popsicle

    meat popsicle Ignostic

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    The shop in Modesto that is doing the insurance repairs to my bike says he called up KTM NA in Ohio and they told him that the recall notice is for European bikes only. He says he even gave them my VIN number and they still said nope.

    I look at the pdf of the KTM recall notice and it says "Countries: All"
    And my VIN number is on the list... :scratch

    WTF is going on... :dunno
    #37
  18. Nom de Guerre

    Nom de Guerre Long timer

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    Meat,
    That's complete BS! I looked at the PDF too, and it definitely says "Countries: All"

    If I get a similar line of bull from my local dealer, I'm gonna be pissed. As long as the document is the real deal, and I'm sure it is based on it's source, then KTM USA is doing some very shady stuff. First there is no notice sent to original owners, and now a balking of following through when the recall notice clearly states "Countries: All."
    #38
  19. meat popsicle

    meat popsicle Ignostic

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    Maybe we should be looking for a retail outlet that has a thousand 21" Excel wheels for sale... :uhoh

    I pinged a dealer on the board here; lets see if he can find out more. Waiting to read what you find out too. :lurk
    #39
  20. KTM640Dakar

    KTM640Dakar Motorsick

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    While on the subject of rims. Does anyone have a spare set of stock rims for a KTM 640 18" back, 21" front with hubs that they would like to sell. I need an extra set for dirt use.

    Thanks.
    #40