KTM 450 - 530 Oil Pump Upgrade! How To Article with Pics

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by Hodakaguy, Jun 14, 2011.

  1. akarob

    akarob Rob

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2009
    Oddometer:
    9,165
    Location:
    Skuncasville, CT
    Tightening that starter cluth is a band aid at best. Since I got the superceeded part from KTM, I haven't had a problem. Starts cold on the magic button now every time. Well worth the price.

    It really should have been a factory recall on that item. I wouldn't rude the bike if it sounds like that, no good can come of it.
    #61
  2. aleksandar450

    aleksandar450 n00b

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Oddometer:
    4
    Location:
    London
    Hi maybe you can help me to find KTM sxf450 2009 oil pump rotors metal one i have only plastics and i need to change it thanks.
    #62
  3. Hodakaguy

    Hodakaguy NorthWest Adventure Rider

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2007
    Oddometer:
    2,733
    Location:
    Eastern WA State

    If your bike didn't have shim behind the torque converter from the factory then you need to re-install it without the shim as well or it will cause binding issues, not all bikes came with the shim.

    Hodakaguy
    #63
  4. Hodakaguy

    Hodakaguy NorthWest Adventure Rider

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2007
    Oddometer:
    2,733
    Location:
    Eastern WA State
    I wouldn't call it a band aid fix, worked flawlessly for 150+ hrs on my 530.

    Hodakaguy
    #64
  5. SHEP_5

    SHEP_5 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2014
    Oddometer:
    936
    Location:
    Western NY, somewhere between Buffalo & Rochester
    Just did this upgrade, thanks for the write up Hodakaguy. Only thing I would add is to also drain the engine oil as it will leak out when the side cover is removed thru the crank stub end. No problem though, i was going to change it anyway.

    Other notes;
    I also noticed there is a machined groove in the last clutch disk, I thought that the bevel washer wore a groove in the disk but after reading the rest of this thread maybe its the machined groove you guys were discussing, makes sense otherwise the washer ring would wear on the plate.
    I inspected the clutch plates thickness over the pads while apart, per the manual they all should be .102 to .106 thick except the furthest inside one , that should be .114 to .118". that must give the clearance needed for that bevel washer added in with the clearance groove.
    I wanted to check the clutch rubbers but couldnt find info on how to do it, i just checked for play between the housing and ring gear, seemed good, I could just barely move it both ways by hand maybe .025" or so.
    #65
  6. vonzips

    vonzips n00b

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2016
    Oddometer:
    2
    Location:
    Central Coast, CA
    Hey guys, a little late to the party and a newb on the dirt. Anyhow, I went through and started working on these mods and ran into a little snafu. By that I mean a little 6mm ball bearing fell out of the right side of the engine case upon removal. I think I've pinpointed it to the clutch push rod; however, in looking at schematics I can't seem to find exactly how or where this fits? Maybe between the push rod and the "pressure piece?" Thanks in advance for any help.
    #66
  7. PSolver

    PSolver Adventurer

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Oddometer:
    18
    Location:
    Grand Junction, CO
    Hi @vonzips I noticed a little ball bearing in the schematics of the lubrication system on page 23 of the parts manual for my 2008 450 exc-r, something related to the gear oil drain plug I think.... but that is on the left side!? Anyway mostly wanted to make sure you are aware of this complete xc4 engine rebuild thread, as it may be helpful, good luck!: http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/2008-ktm-530-exc-r-complete-xc4-engine-rebuild.1086301/page-2
    #67
  8. PSolver

    PSolver Adventurer

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Oddometer:
    18
    Location:
    Grand Junction, CO
    Hi @Hodakaguy and others, may I ask how critical the oil jet upgrade is? I'm proud new owner of a (cared for but used as intended) 2008 450 exc-r that has had all the exact work done for this oil system upgrade including documentation of your exact part numbers, etc referenced above...EXCEPT for the oil jet. i.e., Would you immediately pull the clutch cover just for this jet upgrade ... or wait until I find another reason to service the clutch or some other right side internals, etc. for another reason? Bike *seems* to be running just fine (crossing fingers). Thanks for any advice ya'll!
    #68
  9. vonzips

    vonzips n00b

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2016
    Oddometer:
    2
    Location:
    Central Coast, CA
    Thanks for the reply! 5 mins into my ride on Monday at Hungry Valley (CA), I realized the bearing didn't have a home under the clutch cover. Fortunately I made it back to base camp without something catastrophic. Removed the outer clutch cover and was fortunately able to remove the ball bearing after it fell into the abyss. Later, I mentioned to a buddy that my kick starter wasn't returning with the "click" it did when I purchased. Well, problem solved. My guess is the ball bearing came out as I was removing parts (out of order). Anyway, with these upgrades and a new Shorai battery, the bike ran flawlessly.
    #69
  10. PSolver

    PSolver Adventurer

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Oddometer:
    18
    Location:
    Grand Junction, CO
    ^^ bumpity bump on my oil jet question in case anyone has a thought about it!? ^^
    #70
  11. Zad16

    Zad16 2017 ktm 300xcw

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2017
    Oddometer:
    215
    I'm putting my 2010 530 xcw back together after doing the oil pump upgrade as per this excellent thread (thank you Hodakaguy) and I noticed the scratch marks on the shift shaft sliding plate to the left of the gears (see photo attached). There is nothing else in the transmission that would make me think something is amiss but these marks do seem odd...anyone have any ideas as to where they might have come from?

    While I'm at it, I thought I would also ask if it is normal for the washer on the outside of the small oil pump gear to move around. It doesn't seem to sit tightly on the oil pump shaft and has a fair bit of play in it. The clip fit on fine and the gears rotate the pump shaft nicely but the movement seems odd, especially given the washer seems much more fixed in place on the upper gear shaft.

    And one more thing: I also did my first oil change on this bike for both engine and gear box. I've not ridden the bike at all (we are buried in record snow levels this year, just got hammered with 36" from Sunday to Thursday) so I don't have any sense of whether or not it is burning or migrating oil. However, the engine had 550ml (should be 600ml) and the gearbox had 1050ml (should be 900ml). If I understand the oil issue, engine oil can move to the gearbox (and vice versa?). If, when I can finally ride it, I notice that the engine oil drops and the gearbox oil increases then Houston, I have a migration problem? I suppose it is possible that the previous owner just overfilled the gearbox (perhaps wishful thinking). Also possible is that the oil was migrating from engine to gearbox so previous owner kept adding engine oil as it dropped leaving 150ml extra in the gearbox?
    oil3.jpg

    oil2.jpg
    oil1.jpg
    #71
  12. uncktruck

    uncktruck Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2015
    Oddometer:
    60
    Location:
    Valley Center, California
    Hodakaguy, Will this fix take care of the oil migration from engine to the gearbox? I haven't read the entire thread because I'm so freakin frustrated with this bike right now!
    #72
  13. Zad16

    Zad16 2017 ktm 300xcw

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2017
    Oddometer:
    215
    I'm no Hodakaguy but as far as I know the best answer is maybe. When doing the oil pump gear upgrade it's important to replace the oil pump cover and o-ring as well, this can sometimes remedy the migration issue. The other thing to do while you are in there is to replace the crankshaft end seal on the inside of the clutch cover. The other thing to do is to make sure the holes in the kick start idler gear line up with the bushing in the idler gear, they often don't and this can contribute to oil loss, not migration as best I understand.
    #73
  14. DesignerRider

    DesignerRider Adventures Since 1984

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2008
    Oddometer:
    106
    Location:
    Lake Elsinore
    Another late-to-the-party 530 owner here. Bought a 2008 a couple years ago. Amazing bike, but then started losing oil from engine to gearbox - and of course only then discovered this was a huge known issue. I am finishing up all upgrades, thanks to Hodakaguy's fantastic writeup. My issue: the new oil pump gears WILL NOT fit! Either they are slightly larger or because they are not used and worn. I have tried everything - installing gears and clutch in different orders. If I install both gears and then try to install clutch basket, the drive gear on the clutch will interfere with and will not engage the large oil pump gear. If I install only the larger gear and clutch, then the small gear will interfere. Anybody have issues getting all the gears to fit together? I'm running out of ideas.
    #74
  15. Zad16

    Zad16 2017 ktm 300xcw

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2017
    Oddometer:
    215
    Have you double checked the part numbers? If they are correct, it's a matter of patiently finding the gear fit that allows the clutch basket to slide on. It took me a long time to get it. Then, the same thing with the gear on the clutch cover, it too takes patience and repeated attempts until it lines up.
    #75
    EVOIIIGSR likes this.
  16. DesignerRider

    DesignerRider Adventures Since 1984

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2008
    Oddometer:
    106
    Location:
    Lake Elsinore
    Cool, thanks for the reply. Yeah P/Ns are correct. This thing sure is testing my patience, but good to know it will fit eventually.
    #76
  17. Zad16

    Zad16 2017 ktm 300xcw

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2017
    Oddometer:
    215
    I had a '10 530 that I sold a few weeks back because it was just too big and heavy feeling for the tight single track I mostly ride. Before selling it I went through all the upgrades including replacing the piston and rings. I didn't have any migration, just oil loss from the single oil ring stock design. The Vertex piston kit solved that and I sold it with a clean conscience. Keep at it, be patient and once you get the motor solved, if the bike suits your riding style, its a keeper.
    #77
  18. alongat

    alongat Fesh Fesh

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2010
    Oddometer:
    4,661
    Location:
    Windsor, United Kingdom
    Your oil pump gears are correct if they're the correct part numbers. Putting the clutch basket back on is an exercise of patience...I know, I've done this many many times and I've convinced myself many times that I must be doing something wrong because it won't go back together. What you need to remember is that the clutch basket "meshes" with a number of different gears including the oil pump drive gears. I find it helpful to wiggle the basket rotationaly-speaking and just keep at it with patience. The oil pump gears can be damaged so be patient. Stop and take a breath, drink a beer, etc and keep at it. If you do that, at some point it will just literally pop into place when all gears align and you'll be amazed and hope that you never have to go through it again but it will go, do NOT force anything. Once you're past that, be very careful when reinstalling the engine side cover as the water pump gear needs to mesh into place as well so do NOT force that one either - if it doesn't slip right on then turn the water pump impeller slightly and it will slip right in. As for the migration issue, in addition to Hodakaguy's amazing contribution, I suggest checking the Kickstart idler gear to make sure it's vent holes are aligned (each and every 450/530 I've worked on has these holes misaligned) as those holes are the only things venting your gearbox (and venting is required to help avoid oil migration) as well as the end crank seal that is pushed into the inside of the engine cover you're removing to do the oil pump work. Each and every bike I've worked on has solved the oil migration issue.
    #78
  19. DesignerRider

    DesignerRider Adventures Since 1984

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2008
    Oddometer:
    106
    Location:
    Lake Elsinore
    Ok, got all those pesky gears installed - lots of patience and finagling! One more question regarding the clutch disk "fingers" that engage with the outer clutch hub. Ever other "finger" has a little round notch taken out of it. When they came out there were all staggered. Should the "fingers" with the round notches be all aligned (in the same notch of the basket)? It's not obvious from my parts catalog I'm working from. Thanks!

    And yes, I also did the crank end seal in the clutch cover case as well as the kickstart idle gear - mine were definitely slipped - not completely misaligned but still enough to restrict venting.
    #79
  20. uncktruck

    uncktruck Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2015
    Oddometer:
    60
    Location:
    Valley Center, California
    Thanks for the easy to follow instructions!
    #80