KTM 500 countershaft leak. Help!!!

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by volrider, Dec 3, 2018.

  1. volrider

    volrider Been here awhile

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    Background. 2018 KTM 500. Bought this bike a couple weeks ago with 150 miles on it. Appears to be basically brand new and perfect. Spent the last two weeks getting it set up and went on first real ride this weekend.

    Got finished with the ride and I have classic signs of countershaft seal leak. Black chain, oily black gunk on motor case, shift lever, and everything else in close proximity to front sprocket. It’s been cleaned up in pictures below.

    It’s obvious previous owner never took front sprocket off as I just broke the yellow seal on countershaft bolt. When I pulled things apart all bearings and seals look fine, but the front of the plastic chain guide has been destroyed. The tab on the front of it was behind sprocket and is getting chewed up.

    6AF5278D-1A1D-49D2-8454-F8E484616A4D.jpeg

    B620933D-3A01-43A8-A5FA-5473198B7253.jpeg

    Anyone got any ideas what’s going on here? Or what the path to resolving this problem might be?
    #1
  2. Eldon

    Eldon 950 ADV

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    #2
  3. volrider

    volrider Been here awhile

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    I have to think the chewed up guide has something to do with my problem. Somethings out of line for that to be getting eaten up like it is. And again, the bike has 150 miles on it and front sprocket had not been removed until I just took it off today, so how would dome washer be the issue if it hasn’t been torqued multiple times?
    #3
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  4. RideFreak

    RideFreak Torque Jockey

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    I suggest pulling out that collar on the countershaft and inspecting the o-ring behind it. There's a good chance it's chewed up with that low of miles on the motor. I still run me oem dome washer with multiple sprocket swaps and it's fine. If you find it chewed up and have to replace the o-ring, purchase one off the same year 300xc or xcw. The 2 stroke o-ring is slightly bigger and does a nice job of sealing it up. Make sure the collar goes back in with the beveled side to the transmission.

    Show us a picture of the other damage (plastic chain guide)
    #4
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  5. volrider

    volrider Been here awhile

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    I did pull collar and it, as well as everything behind it looks perfect. 2nd pic shows how chain has chewed up chain guide. I guess I should be saying chain slider since that’s the correct part name. Front piece that bolts on over front sprocket is fine
    #5
  6. volrider

    volrider Been here awhile

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    FD5FEFC2-3F96-4DD6-BBF7-3F4650412595.jpeg C4D6E44F-928B-46AA-9811-5404E049B1B9.jpeg 95F4DD5B-B65F-450A-835A-55702F2FE13D.jpeg F3E78AFC-0064-49C7-A882-304DC28AC7BA.jpeg
    #6
  7. Ned1

    Ned1 Breakage and fixage, rinse and repeat

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    How much oil in the bike? Too much by chance? Cheap to find out...

    Overfill it and you get a lot of crankcase pressure and oil starts coming out of places it shouldn't. Happened on one of my RFS bikes, would be surprised if it didn't happen on the new engines too.
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  8. volrider

    volrider Been here awhile

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    Top of the sight glass with bike level. Too full?
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  9. octagonpilot

    octagonpilot _________________

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    spitballing here, but the stuff on the slider looks to me to be just an accumulation of chain lube or what ever is on the chain. can you just scrape all that off, clean the chain and that whole area with a good degreaser? then maybe ride it for few minutes and see what you see. also maybe check chain tension and rear wheel alignment when you button it back up. and top of the glass is the max oil level
    #9
  10. Ned1

    Ned1 Breakage and fixage, rinse and repeat

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    Sounds like it to me, especially if that's when the engine is cold.

    Rather than dicking around trying to siphon extra oil out of the cases to get the right quantity, drain the sump into a clean pan and measure what comes out. Put a liter of that oil back in and resist the temptation to top it up. These engines only take 1.2 liters so you gotta be careful. Use a measuring cup :-)

    Clean up the engine and chassis so you can see any leaks and then take the bike for a rip to get it up to full temp and case pressure. Then you can check your sight glass after a few minutes with the bike standing upright.

    Hopefully that's all it is. Good luck
    #10
  11. Ned1

    Ned1 Breakage and fixage, rinse and repeat

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    To make you feel better, I once put in 500ml too much oil in my 525.... good lord it did not like that and it puked oil and basically ran like it was getting waterboarded LOL :lol3
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  12. gunnerbuck

    gunnerbuck Island Hopper

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    Make sure your chain has enough slack... If it is too tight there tends to be chain binding under suspension compression which can cause shearing of the o-ring behind the counter shaft bushing..
    #12
  13. volrider

    volrider Been here awhile

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    Stuff on end of slider is shredded plastic. Circular shape in end of plastic is where front sprocket has worn it away. Chain tension and wheel alignment are good, set both before I rode it.

    Sounds like maybe I could drain a small amount of oil and see if that helps.
    #13
  14. volrider

    volrider Been here awhile

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    Chain was too tight when I bought it, but not by a lot. Surely the 100 miles the PO put on it couldn’t have killed seals even if chain was a little tight
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  15. Ned1

    Ned1 Breakage and fixage, rinse and repeat

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    OP, just drain the sump fully and put a liter back in. The 'dip the toes in' thing just prolongs the guessing game.
    #15
  16. renogeorge

    renogeorge Let's ride!!

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    Yep. My bet is a loose rear axle/lost the nut/etc., causing rear wheel to be so out of line with countershaft sprocket that it wore the front tip of the slider. I guess chain pulling at an angle on CS sprocket could effect its loading of the sleeve and O ring and possibly creating gap between seal and sleeve. That's my story and I'm sticking to it....at least until somebody comes up with a better one.

    Under the circumstances, think I'd get the whole kit--CS seal, O ring, dome washer and sleeve. Install it, carefully align wheel and adjust chain tension. Normally I would just go with the O ring, which is what usually goes after some high mileage.
    #16
  17. octagonpilot

    octagonpilot _________________

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    if the CS sprocket was in contact the slider, the sprocket must have been installed with the shoulder to the outside, no? something on the countershaft not spaced properly..high oil level isn't going to make the cs sprocket grind the slider.
    #17
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  18. gunnerbuck

    gunnerbuck Island Hopper

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    The outer seal in the case should be fine, it is just the easy to change o-ring that usually splits from bind... Remove the sprocket and you can slide the bushing out by hand and then fish the o-ring out for inspection with a piece of wire with a small L shape bend on one end...
    #18
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  19. volrider

    volrider Been here awhile

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    226F45BE-B164-4637-8BFB-379E6283F784.png

    So we’re all on the same page. Parts 24, 25, and 26 all look new upon inspection so I don’t see what good replacing those would do. Well I didn’t pull 24 but everything I can see looks perfect.
    #19
  20. Ned1

    Ned1 Breakage and fixage, rinse and repeat

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    I know what I'm betting my money on :lol2
    #20