KTM 500 EXC - Converting to Cush Hub

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by mdlafferty, Dec 14, 2016.

  1. Duzitall

    Duzitall old dude

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2015
    Oddometer:
    334
    Location:
    San Diego


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    #41
  2. miksu

    miksu Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2009
    Oddometer:
    479
    Location:
    Finland
    In street riding (I commute through 60-30km/h zones) rekluse brings a lot more comfort as in reduced slack and vibrations than a cush hub. I thought a cush hub is the magic ticket but in reality it just made shifting more difficult and marginal difference in comfort. In my case it did not increase chain life, might have affected the counter shaft spline life marginally (during the thousands of hours on exc's I've had to replace one counter shaft, but it is true the engine may outlast the splines). Can not say about gearbox because they live thousands of hours either way so getting some statistical data is difficult.
    #42
  3. econwatch

    econwatch Been here awhile Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2011
    Oddometer:
    526
    Location:
    SLC,YVR/YYC,LGA
    Recently installed a Warp9 cush hub on my 500EXC-F. Coming from a 9x0 and expecting to use it as a lighter multi-day adv bike (medium tarmac) I didn't want to take the risk.
    How is shifting affected?
    Would this apply to adv type use or is it considerably more evident in dirt biased riding?
    #43
  4. RideFreak

    RideFreak Torque Junky

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Oddometer:
    16,560
    Location:
    Out in the NM Dez somewhere
    I have the same wheel and shifting isn't affected, you'd be hard pressed to tell it's on there except it's a little smoother overall and I can feel less driveline snatch at lower speeds. If Miksu is feeling a difference in shifting then it's the difference between a Recluse and standard clutch, it's not related to the wheel.
    #44
    Bitingdog likes this.
  5. miksu

    miksu Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2009
    Oddometer:
    479
    Location:
    Finland
    Change in shifting feel is insignificant, but annoying still if you switch between cush and non-cush hubs constantly (like I used to do). Cush hub just makes it more tacky. Without it gears of course drop very nicely, almost accidentally just like they should because torque is cut between power strokes. That is a major difference between street bike and offroad bike :)

    The curious thing is that even logic would tell rekluse would make shifting harder, the clutch pressure is lower (even at mid-rpms). A sloppy gearshift with a normal clutch (especially with cush hub because it is not offloading the torque so much) will just result in violent bang between the gear dogs and gear not engaging or engaging badly. Same thing with rekluse induces a bit of slip and just drops in. I am not sure how the core design performs though, have not tested that in my own use.

    But if you are concerned about the reliability and service intervals the cush hub does everything that there is to be done to improve that I am sure. Rekluse just brings a bit more comfort than a cush hub which still does not remove the violent nature of a thumper when you open the throttle at low revs with high gear. In traffic this happens all the time, crawling near idle pretty much requires slipping the clutch and when you want to accelerate suddenly, you just can not drop the clutch and give it gas off the idle on 3rd or 4th or whatever, cush hub just does not help enough with a violent thumper if you don't get the revs up by changing down or slipping the clutch. Offroad that does not matter of course as there is instant wheelspin.
    #45
    econwatch likes this.
  6. SHEP_5

    SHEP_5 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2014
    Oddometer:
    994
    Location:
    Western NY, somewhere between Buffalo & Rochester
    I looked at the high price warp 9 and others, even the Chinese knock offs are pricey, so I bought a Lc4 640 used wheel on Ebay for 220$, It does have a bit wider rim but it fits my 530 perfect. bolted right on. I put a Moto z Mountain Hybrid on it ( Dot tire) lasts a long time on pavement and grips awesome on hard terrain. I left my stock rear rim for offroad knobby's. The Wheel is about 7 lbs heavier that a non cush with a regular knobby.

    For color to match black front rim, I carefully masked off the hub and spokes and primed and flat black wheel painted the rim. You cant tell the difference as the bike is usually dirty. even when pressure washed clean, the rim matches perfectly the front black one, It does get scratches and dings from changing tires and riding but you wouldn't know it unless I told you it was paint.

    All together with a new tire I had about 330$ into it and its a factory KTM wheel
    #46
    Bitingdog and davesupreme like this.
  7. econwatch

    econwatch Been here awhile Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2011
    Oddometer:
    526
    Location:
    SLC,YVR/YYC,LGA
    Hard to beat that price.
    Gave W9 a new Takasago and they built up an orange hub, black spokes, silver nipples incl rotor/sprocket setup for $500, all in $675. As they're local, dropoff to pickup was a week. Good guys to work with.
    #47
    XRHondafan likes this.
  8. Dean12

    Dean12 n00b

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2014
    Oddometer:
    4
    looking at the powerparts cat can you simply put the
    KTM Sprocket Support (58310050044) into the standard hub and blocks and bingo Ktm cush drive ??
    or did KTM make their own moto wheels with a different hub? are the hubs the same ?
    #48
  9. Mudguts

    Mudguts when in doubt GAS IT

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Oddometer:
    2,743
    Location:
    Some were in , lostralia
    No dean the hubs are sold as 2 peices what you are looking is the the spocket holder and hub . The standard none cush hub can not take the sprocket holder KTM would not make it that easy they'd loose too much money
    #49
  10. Mudguts

    Mudguts when in doubt GAS IT

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Oddometer:
    2,743
    Location:
    Some were in , lostralia
    Off the top of my head they are 3 / possibly 4 different size cush hubs
    640 fit the exc range
    690
    and 950 990
    Not sure on the new 1190's +
    #50
  11. TBR

    TBR One Life ~ Live It...

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Oddometer:
    2,339
    Location:
    Cruisin' China since '89..
    #51
    Ryno041 and Bitingdog like this.
  12. 4mud

    4mud Adventurer

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2007
    Oddometer:
    64
    Location:
    Bridgewater, NS, Canada
    So am I correct in reading this as a 690 enduro rear wheel cannot be used on a 500 exc? Are there easy modifications which could be made to make it fit?
    #52
    hidsrtktm likes this.
  13. Mudguts

    Mudguts when in doubt GAS IT

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Oddometer:
    2,743
    Location:
    Some were in , lostralia
    Lucky for you I have a 690 and EXC with cush rear wheel so can do a swap to see what works , I do know the sprocket carriers are thinker on the 690 as for the hub I do not know
    #53
  14. Bluetonguejak

    Bluetonguejak Pretend racer

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2009
    Oddometer:
    3,877
    Location:
    Gippsland
    Correct - the 690 hub assy is about 10mm wider than the 500/640 assy
    #54
  15. AUSSIEADV

    AUSSIEADV 2wo left foots

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2006
    Oddometer:
    12,088
    Location:
    Ned and Wild’s fight site
    #55
  16. TBR

    TBR One Life ~ Live It...

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Oddometer:
    2,339
    Location:
    Cruisin' China since '89..
    Add on to post #55 = http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/kush-sprockets.852975/page-9

    "I'm actually going to start importing and marketing the motomox sprockets over here, we'll be making a few changes but keeping the same basic design. If you're interested, send me an email: matt@adventure-imports.com ..."

    They might be available in the US of A by now from matt@adventure-imports.com ,reliable Oz (Australia) distributor http://www.01moto.com.au by the sound of it as dealing with the "Mox Sprocks" NZ manufacturer / inventor proofed to be very hard and time consuming..... Tempted to get a "Mox Sprocks" for my spare rear wheel next time over in AUS again but definetly going via http://www.01moto.com.au
    #56
  17. Proud Highway

    Proud Highway one hand waving free

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2011
    Oddometer:
    351
    Is there a trick for seating the sprocket carrier to the hub on cush setups?

    I sourced a factory new LC4 wheel, sprocket carrier and set of cush dampers. All assembled it's about 1/16" too wide to fit in my swing arm. Without the cush dampers the hub and sprocket carrier are easily narrow enough to fit.
    #57
  18. miksu

    miksu Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2009
    Oddometer:
    479
    Location:
    Finland
    No trick, just don't put wd40 in the rubber pads because they swell. Jump on it and force it in and it will work.
    #58
    Proud Highway likes this.
  19. Dao1

    Dao1 Long timer

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2014
    Oddometer:
    2,213
    Location:
    Austin TX
    I also had to fight a 1/16" too wide issue. IT' the cushions that's the big variable.
    with brand new cushions, it needed some coaxing to get the hub to seat all the way inside. I just positioned the wheel into place, put one side of the wheel spacer inside the swingarm, then I put a pry bar between the edge of the other side wheel spacer and the inside of the side swingarm to compress the cushions enough to enable the two outboard spacers to slide inbetween the swingarm.
    #59
    Proud Highway likes this.
  20. miksu

    miksu Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2009
    Oddometer:
    479
    Location:
    Finland
    A little lubricant will help for those rubbers as well as long as it doesnt swell them.
    #60
    Proud Highway likes this.