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Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by PASSMORE, Jan 19, 2005.
I would love to see some photos of the install
yes. the hid bulb requires quite a bit of current to ignite. more than a halogen bulb. once it is running draw is much less though. most are 35 watts.
not sure the exact amount of current required to ignite... anyone?
Not sucking more wattage but it could be that your ballast may be too close to other electrical components causing distorting signals. How far away are your ballast/igniters to the tech display?
thanks loaded thats kind of what I thought. Passmore sorry but I dont have a camera, however theres not much to it I bought the set up from Michael Friedel in Austria last year I think afew other members did as well, It looks like he shortened the burner (bulb) so that it would fit then the wire just runs to the ballest and the stock plug in for the standard headlamp just plugs into that, I just zip tied fome padding around the ballest for padding and wedged it into the Duke nose cone next to the tach it stays their just fine.
James, I had heard that some bikes required a capacitor to get the HID's to light off. A lot of people have remarked that they won't turn on until they bring the rpms up.
As to running both lights at once, thats my preference because the low beam provides a great fill, which really helps when you lean the bike in turns. That attitude change during cornering, and the pitch change during hard acceleration and braking, especially on long travel bikes, makes the extra light a godsend IMHO. If I thought the 640 could handle it, I would just stuff two 80 watt bulbs in and run them all the time. Maybe my eyes are just getting old!
I've heard the same as well specifically in thumpers that are dual sported (kit).
My guess would be an insufficient stator needing a beefed up rewind and even some bikes that are factory DS may need the coil beefing, think XR400 and the likes..
If our 640's are lighting up the stock 55w effortlessly then I see no problem firing 35w.
I can see the dilema or head scrathing on this subject and I'm no expert on the matter by no means but as I understand it. The HID system requires the specific bulb to generate it's lighting from "lack of a better term" forced energy lighting, which is expounded on by the power supplied through the ballast. The ballast need the wattage to perform the duty and a underpowered source can delay light transfer to the HID bulbs.
I read that HID lighting (xenon capsules) require a "Igniter" to light up and it used to be a separate unit. Maybe its built into the same housing as the ballast now? I just thought it needed some extra umph built up to "ignite" and that is what the "Igniter" did? Here is some more HID speak where the Igniter is a separate unit (The Hella webpages do not list a separate Igniter unit for their lamps but I have not looked at everything on them: http://www.hella.com/produktion/Hel...Performance_Lighting/Performance_Lighting.jsp):
"Unlike a standard Halogen bulb that uses a filament, which operates on a 12-Volt, DC powered system; the HID capsule has no filament. The HID system produces an arc of light after the inverter and igniter units convert the DC 12 Volts into AC at 25 000 Volt. When high voltage is applied, the XENON gas and metallic salts are ignited to produce an arc of light. "
This is interestin' because if there is no filament then do they not wear out?
"PIAA brings HID Technology to its popular 2100 XT series. Ultra low profile design allows for easy installation and a multitude of applications for today's sport car and truck enthusiasts. PIAA's new smaller ballast greatly enhances the price to performance ratio of HID technology. Check it out! Kit includes two lamps, two ballast and igniter sets, wiring harness, relay and switch.
2100 HID Features:
* HID Driving Light
* Bulb Type: 12V - H.I.D. 35watt
* Silver PPS composite housing, chrome plated trim ring, glass lens and multi surface reflector
* Kit includes two lamps, two ballast & igniter sets, wiring harness, relay and switch
* Part #2182"
I wonder what mystery part #2182 is...
So y'all that are putting in just a ballast, maybe you need an igniter as well?
This is interestin':
"SOL LAMP kits do not use the plastic connector design at the rear of the HID lamp for connection as do some of the so called "universal" styles that resellers refer to as "plug and play". These rear connector lamp styles do not provide the seal needed for keeping moisture out of the headlamp assembly."
Hmmmm... lots of info on the workings of HID up there; might be easier for some of you to interpret than me.
"In closing, the Phillips and Hella ballasts are good products but, they are designed for cars. They do not take into account battery capacity limitations of motorcycles and they are designed with connectors which are automotive oriented."
Also, check out this fella's webpages here: http://www.sollamps.com/
A lil more info:
"Note that a ballast is needed to start the HID light burning, because the light units typically need 30 amps or so at startup, which would overwhelm a motorcycle's electrical system if the lamp was started without a ballast. The ballast provides the increased electrical current at startup without higher amperage. This means that in most cases, the HID light and ballast system can work with the bike's existing fuse and wiring. HID lights take only 5 amps or so after the initial burn."
The kit tested:
MAN just dig around on this webbikeworld. Seems low budget and might be a whore but well I wouldn't know where to look for upgrade MC specific headlight wiring harnesses:
Up early huh Meat? well unfortunately HID bulbs do wear out and it's progressive so you will notice brightness fading. The better the bulb quality, the better the life and no Mr. Hung/Jung does not offer quality kits
Some companies still offer a separete ballast igniter combo, I guess there's pros & cons to both but essentially the better the system quality wise the better the chances of reaching premature problems.
Catz Japan made a beautifull kit using real Sylvania bulbs (not available in the U.S. anymore) some companies still offer quality kits offer the same but in reality are not real Sylvania's and if they're stamped Sylvania ylike Hella Germany and more than likely it's chaos to get unless your on eBay or working for BMW,Audi and some Japanese models.
Make sure you check orgin of product, ie: Taiwan, Indonesia. So much on this subject that it's never ending, anyway's I'll stop rambling..
almost every day; its my time, well until mini-meat arrives!
Yeah, its all the rage eh? I am interested in the discussion from the SOL Lights makers regarding MC specific needs - I wonder if their kits are quality because they are cheap comparably. They also said that the car stuff will ask more of your MC electrical system that it has to offer. That would worry me. What is your system?
I'm tellin' ya'... the Surefires duct taped to the helmet are the way to go... really.
I have a Chrysler Pacifica with HID, and the HID is on for 'low beam' and when the 'highs' are on the HID stays on. I know that HID combined with 'standard' lights have other considerations, for one the HID takes too long to 'light' to have them turn off when the high beams are engaged.
I do agree that running both 'standard' lights together when they are designed to run individually could over heat the wiring.
I noticed that LEDs are hitting the off-road market:
Grote Industries in the Baja 1000:
I don't see that rally product but they do produce these:
I can't find suppliers online except this one:
It is rebranded as Soltek for the off-road market:
And sold through Baja Designs:
You can change the beam shape by changing the lens (so they say), and 2880 lumens ain't bad for 50W consumption eh? Plus the price is competitive with HIDs. But the current draw is 4 amps so beware! Probably NOT DOT LEGAL... maybe if the lens controls the beam properly. At best it could be a high-beam or an accessory light.
PS - it is not 3.5-4" round like the stock headlights on the ADV, it is ~9x6x4" deep, but it could be mounted ala creeper through the fairing... just for kicks (lamp not to scale):
PS - beam diagrams for the Trillian/Soltek lights (all three lenses) here:
I know you changed your mind and went with a Trail Tech HID, but just in case anyone is thinking about your idea there are commercial solutions that might function better. I know Surefire makes solutions for barrel mounts but I don't know of any helmet mounts. (this came up in another thread; just coagulating it)
A MTB friend of mine swears by Niterider, and here are their helmet mounted off-road solutions:
Note the riders they sponsor and in which events. They are expensive, but a bit cheaper than true HID fixtures such as the Hella Micro DE HID setups. And having a 40W HID strapped to your helmet sure would lend power to your glances at other motorists.
so this is it for my LCD lighting posts.
One more choice I have seen From Truck-Lite (UK):
Series 81 Work Lamp
Not sure about input/output details yet, but I think this one takes only 1.2 amps, and the form factor is better than rectangular. Anyways, might find them below $100 each in the US, like HERE.
I am awaiting a beam diagram so their output pattern and intensity can be compared to others, like the Grote/Soltek above as well as HID and halogen lamps. I'll post it if it shows up. EDIT: I received the engineering specs on this lamp from Truck-Lite, which includes Isocandela Scans (some type of beam diagram). But I am having trouble comparing them to the above because candela and lux are not directly comparable... Anyways, if you want it PM me your email and I will let you have it.
They don't have beam diagrams with lux, but they do have other's isocandela scans... and led me to more MFGs:
I don't know if any of these "utility lights" output is near the Grote Trilliant (which approaches HID output... ) but for ~$100/light they are much cheaper (than ~$500).
I'm currently working on an LED solution for the Xc and the 640 adventure. It's going to be a mountable light and its going to kick out some serious light with only a minimal amount of power. One of my friends designs lights for aircraft and has some super hot LEDs that only draw 15 or so watts. We're currently working on designing the enclosure and the circuit board.
I will keep everyone posted. Please let me know if you're interested and let me know how much coin you'd be willing to drop on something like this. We're trying to keep them around $250 but with all the machining and custom lenses they may be a bit more.
This photo was taken with my iphone...the wall is about 50 feet away. I wish I had my real camera but I was to excited to take any photos of other stuff. That's 10 volts at 15 watts. I will attempt to get some real photos of it outside at night and compared to my factory 640 adventure high beam.
If you can do that with 15w draw I'm interested
Let's see the comparo pic's
light em up...
yeah that looks pretty bright. It's just a matter of having a balance between legality, safety and enough light to go fast.
I'm interested, I don't have an ADV but an SXC, if the light is easily mounted to
the hand guard that would be good.
Put me on your list .