KTM 690 Auxiliary Fuel Tank

Discussion in 'Vendors' started by rade, Mar 29, 2014.

  1. sprouty115

    sprouty115 Long timer Supporter

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    That new filter probably has about 1/3rd the filter area of the Rottweiler or DNA filters...consider that before you spring for a tank that you really may not even need.
  2. cal08

    cal08 Long timer

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    There is no doubt a 1 gal Rotopax is a viable alternatiive. I am under the impression, however, that the filter area is less important than the unrestricted intake flow. others more informed, please chime in.
  3. Anders-

    Anders- 690R

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    Larger filter area is better when running in dirty conditions (longer service interval before getting clogged). As few places as possible where air can leak through also makes sense.
    cal08 likes this.
  4. levain

    levain STILL Jim Williams Supporter

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    My summer is evolving though and i have an issue with stopping for gas as you know:wings:wings
  5. sprouty115

    sprouty115 Long timer Supporter

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    You'd rather clean your filter every three days? :muutt

    I don't seen it as a solution for me - the small filter is one issue, getting to the valves is another, and then having to pull the tank-bag and seat to fill it all adds up to me preferring the external MSR bottle solution.

    20170812_114408.jpg

    But in all honesty, if it works for you, go for it. It will be well made and tucked away.
  6. Anders-

    Anders- 690R

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    Maybe it would be a different story if you could refill without removing the saddle ;-)

    Getting the underseat tank out is no more difficult than the stock airbox, maybe the rottweiler setup is easier though?
  7. cal08

    cal08 Long timer

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    What did you do with the extra space under the seat ? Tools?
  8. sprouty115

    sprouty115 Long timer Supporter

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    Actually, you have a fair point, having to pull the seat at every fill-up is probably the biggest issue.

    I don't have any extra space under the seat - I'm running the stock airbox (sealed with silicone gasket material along the seams), a modified top cover, and a DNA filter. It has been dust-free for me. I did briefly have the Rally Raid filter mounted up, but the intake honk was deafening so I sold it. I'm considering the Rottweiler, but I need sneak a ride on @levain's bike before I pull the trigger...
    Anders- and cal08 like this.
  9. Misdirection

    Misdirection n00b

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    I have a question for those who have switched to the 6" UNI 6245AST . My bike is a 2008. I bought a used kit. I have what appears to be a 2nd gen tank. It has the cut out for the ABS and the rear mounting bracket indention is inset about 1/2" from the back of the tank. I have the K&N filter but it will not fit - it hits the back of the tank and won't let the tank sit down in the bracket. I see that several others have had this problem. I would like to switch to the 6" UNI 6245AST but it appears that it is 4" in diameter and would hit the tank harder that the K&N (which is only about 3.75 in diameter). It doesn't appear that the mounting snout on the UNI filter is long enough to clear the tank back. It doesn't look like the filter would smash down enough to work. If any of you have made the 6" filter work with this tank can you explain how? What my logic would tell me is that I have to run the 4" UNI 4245AST and make/buy a 2" metal sleeve extender similar to the very first RADE filter design.

    Does anybody have one of those first generation filter set-ups?

    Does anybody want to trade a non-ABS tank for my ABS tank? (not sure it would be worth the shipping cost but maybe there is someone local)

    Thanks to all for any help and comments.
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  10. El Lobo

    El Lobo Been here awhile

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    I can understand the problem with a K&N filter that uses a "hard shell". Is it even angled?
    Those UNI filters are soft with only a internal spring that hold every thing together. I think it will work with the tank. It will problebly touch your tank but does it really matter if it all fits together.
    I have the 4" angled version with stainless pipe. Been working fine for 25tkm. Outerwears prefilter is a easy way too keep your filter clean. It takes up most of the dirt/dust.

    Edit. On the other hand you can buy a upgrade kit also from Rade. Then you get a new airfilter box + tank.
  11. orangebleu

    orangebleu Adventurer

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    hy Lobo , doe know de serial N° from your UNI filter

    cheers
  12. El Lobo

    El Lobo Been here awhile

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    As mentioned above: UNI 4245 AST
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  13. WhereTheHellIsJames?

    WhereTheHellIsJames? Brraaaappp!!

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    I received the upgrade kit, and spent a couple of hours reworking the Rade air box and air filter cage due to very poor fit and finish, then trying to get it to fit in to the bike. I'm running in to interference with the wiring harness, rear shock, and fuel line with both the air box and temp sensor, and am simply unable to get the air box in there and the intake boot correctly seated over the throttle body flange. I'm no dunce when it comes to wrenching on motorbikes, and am surprised that this thing isn't working out. I've reached out to Rade, but haven't heard back. Has anyone else received the 'upgraded' 690 kit for a F.I. bike and gotten it to fit correctly? After messing with the fitment of the air box for over an hour, trying every way I could think of to move wiring harness (without major modification), readjusted intake boot, moved fuel line, etc., I finally just gave up, pulled out the whole Rade system, and reinstalled the stock air box.
  14. orangebleu

    orangebleu Adventurer

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    Hy James , it's very bad for you . I'm install the 2015 model . There is very less places and to bend few braket it was inside . I need also to made a small modification on the front seat fixation , 10mm higher , because de filling plug on the way .
    This is a very good place to install this tank but little to sharp . The easy way , a ROTOPAX from 1 gal on the rear .
    cheers
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  15. cal08

    cal08 Long timer

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    Time to hold Rade to his word, return it all and move on.
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  16. Little Bike

    Little Bike Air/Clutz Sue Supporter

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    That sucks. I’m going to do the vent rerouting described earlier in this thread, put in some heat shielding and call it a day.
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  17. WhereTheHellIsJames?

    WhereTheHellIsJames? Brraaaappp!!

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    For what it's worth, a buddy of mine has this new setup on his 701, and it works splendidly. It may just be some subtle differences between the 690 and 701 that makes it great on that bike, but unusable on mine.

    Also, for those following, Rade made good on his word, and made things right. He's a standup guy in my book.
    cal08 likes this.
  18. BigWally

    BigWally Been here awhile

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    I just did my upgrade kit installation successfully, but not without a few challenges. I'm learning more about motorcycle mechanics so my skill level is somewhere between a noob and a competent wrench, YMMV. 2015 ABS version.

    NOTE on pics: orange "bonnet" atop the air filter is an Outerwears prefilter that I cut to fit, sort of, since I won't be using it over the UNI pod filters that are new retired.

    The intake tube from the OEM airbox can be folded over, sorta twice, held and squeezed thru the airbox receiving hole. Just give it a little love and it'll go.

    The fit is tight for the small airbox, but it WILL fit. I had to carefully position the 2 throttle body/intake clamp fasteners in order to get the airbox to go into position, but then it DID fit. It wasn't going to fit with those bulky fasteners in the most convenient position to tighten them, their position had to be finessed a bit.

    Instructions say to remove the front tank hanger, which I did, but it would be nice to retain it for useful support of the front of the tank which of course will be heavy when fully fueled. Without the front hanger, the front of the tank rests atop the ABS unit but at only one small support point. I suggest others explore this potential fit before removing the front hanger, and let us know if it can be retained.
    My tank wants to settle-in just in front of the rear hanger rather than fully rearward and setting atop it as designed. Longer-term I may modify the hanger connections to allow slightly forward adjustment (elongate the holes a bit). My temporary work-around was to 1)push the tank fully rearward to position it atop the hanger (and almost touching the front of the airbox); then 2)reposition the velcro strap forward a bit so it can run along the groove in the top of the tank and apply both rear-and downward pressure on the tank to keep it on the rear hanger. With rerouting - and going through a pre-existing zip tie instead of around the frame to gain needed length - that velcro strap can be made useful with the upgrade configuration. See last two pics.

    I found the best routing for the fuel line to avoid an unwanted high-hump (rather than continuous down slope) is to go right-side and in front of - rather than above - the ABS lines. See first pic. Then its easy to loop back inside the frame, around some other lines, and to the petcock (not shown). In my experience high-humps, and one-way vent valves, can predispose to vapor lock.

    I had a slow intermittent leak at the tank-fuel line connection which was rectified by replacing the old fuel line which developed tiny cracks (too fine to see unless stressed and leaking), probably due to aging and my applying a lot of twisting and pulling pressure to remove it from the old tank's connector. Takes around 19" or so of new fuel line (less than 2').

    And now for some controversy fodder, that being venting this tank system.
    See J's post#323 for an elegant description of fluid flow mechanics. I didn't reroute my upgraded system to that he describes - although I might in the future. For now I simply reconnected to the existing Rade petcock.
    I don't use the supplied orange one-way vent valve or the bracket to mount it to the seat post retainer. While it might have been described somewhere as a 2-way vent valve, if you blow into it the ball plugs the valve which in my book makes it a one-way valve. And in my experience this tank needs to be able to vent both ways or it won't function as designed. Needs to let air in so fuel can drain to the rear tank, and needs to let expanding hot air out of the tank when the engine is at operating temp. Whenever I've tried to use those one-way vent valves with this system its resulted in vapor lock, siphoning and colorful language in profusion. IT'S GOTTA BE ABLE TO BREATHE BOTH DIRECTIONS.
    **BY THE WAY, YOU'LL NEED ONE OF RADE'S VENTED GAS CAPS CUZ THIS TANK IS NOT VENTED. The original Rade gas cap is NOT vented, the original tank was vented directly.
    What finally worked for me (even on the original RADE setup) is to have a long aux tank vent hose that runs above the ignition and steering damper post, then down to the skid plate. This high-then low exit point is consistent with one of J's vent solution descriptions. And it well works for me and I use it in the following manner:
    1)If using the tank as a "big reserve", don't fill the tank completely to the neck, leave a little room for expansion and slosh. In the original Rade tank that was 1.5 gal of 1.8 gal stated capacity. That little bit of slack avoids a lot of irritation with siphoning.
    2)Better yet - go ahead and fill nearly to the neck, then run with the aux petcock open for the first 30-45 minutes or so, then close the petcock and you still have lotsa reserve and plenty of "forgiveness space" in the aux tank for fuel/air expansion while avoiding siphoning, sloshing, vapor lock, etc.


    First pic - fuel line routing ahead of ABS lines.
    The clear tubing is my extended fuel tank vent hose headed down to the skid plate.
    Last 2 pics - tank had to be pushed fully rearward to set atop the rear tank hanger. It's natural resting point would have been just in front of that hanger. So the velcro strap is routed to apply rear/downward pressure to hold the tank down atop the rear hanger. Velcro strap frame routing on left side, but through existing orange zip tie on right side to gain needed strap length. On the right-side pic you can see the groove in the top of the tank that the retaining strap lies in.
    Clear fuel tank vent hose which extends above the ignition and over the steering damper post, then downward to the skid plate.

    So my summary of this journey are these:
    1) Everything CAN fit AND function as designed (but with the velcro strap routing and tank venting modifications described above).
    2) I like the system, especially the upgraded version which allows easy access for air filter maintenance.
    3) I only use it on extended routes and in the manner described. Otherwise I prefer to leave it empty, keep the front end light, and not diddle with removing the seat to add fuel. And I'm not gonna cut up my seat Baja-style.
    4) Rade has been a good communicator and I have no complaints. And I'm not bashful about complaining when warranted.

    IMG_0795.jpg IMG_0794.jpg IMG_0793.jpg
  19. Anders-

    Anders- 690R

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    I think you've missed the genereal idea behind 2-way vent valves, the point is to let air go both ways, but stop fuel from flowing out.
    The design will allow air to escape a limited rate, but blowing (too fast) into the valve will move the ball and cause it to block the movement of air.
    (expanding fumes in a gas tank move slower than the "breath test")
  20. BigWally

    BigWally Been here awhile

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    I think you're right. Thanks for clarifying the point.
    Keep in mind these are only installation observations at this point. I haven't taken it on a function check ride yet but it functioned as expected on the lift with the engine at operating temp but only ~3L of fuel on board. Transferred fuel normally, no fuel leaks (after replacing old/cracked fuel line), vent tube clear & wide open.
    The air filter accessibility is indeed a welcome improvement and the only reason I upgraded since I had already fixed the venting/siphoning/vapor locking problem.
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