KTM 690 Auxiliary Fuel Tank

Discussion in 'Vendors' started by rade, Mar 29, 2014.

  1. nwemerys

    nwemerys Been here awhile Super Supporter

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    Mine worked out great with the Honda Bond. My problem is the tank sits to high for the seat to fit perfectly...
  2. welshboxer

    welshboxer Adventurer

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    Pity Rade Garage doesn’t do a kit for the direct line feed, might be a cheaper solution.
  3. aanichols

    aanichols Racer at heart

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    Did you modify the front support. It involves grinding a bit of it away to allow more clearance for the outlet. It allows the tank to move forward so the seat fits. Somewhere in this thread there are some pics.
    bigbrad likes this.
  4. nwemerys

    nwemerys Been here awhile Super Supporter

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    I did not, but will look tomorrow. Odd that we need to do this in order for a seat to fit though...
  5. aanichols

    aanichols Racer at heart

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    I agree, but it worked. Look at post #427
  6. KiwiHayd

    KiwiHayd Adventurer

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    Hi there, Im hoping you can shed some light on the question i have regarding the Rade tank siphon method install. You seem to be the Guru so i appreciate any help.

    Ive got a 18 690 with stock fuel filler cap at the moment, um wondering if you or anyone else might have any images showing where they routed the fuel line/breather hose. And im assuming as the Rade outlet fitting is larger diameter than the stock bikes vent line that people use a new fuel line for this job, and do i need to drill out the vent fitting on the filler fitting?

    Im also concerned that if i run the fuel vent line along the frame rail above the battery box that the seat frame could pinch the line.

    Any help would be appreciated, and i hope everyone is keeping safe with Covid-19 spreading everywhere very quickly. In New Zealand we are on a compulsory 4 week lockdown.

    Cheers Hayden


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  7. The Letter J

    The Letter J Long timer

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    Sorry for the late reply. Yes, I used a new fuel line to attach the front tank to the vent of the rear filler. I don't have any pictures, but I ran the line next to the battery, not on top of it. If your '18 is like my '09, you can just remove the 2 bolts for the battery hold down, wiggle out the top plate, stuff the fuel line down next to the battery, and reassemble. It is snug, but there's minimal risk of pinching or snagging it there. I never tried with the stock filler cap, but as long as it forms an air tight seal, I don't see any reason that it wouldn't work.
    KiwiHayd likes this.
  8. KiwiHayd

    KiwiHayd Adventurer

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    Thanks heaps for replying. I ended up doing a similar install anyway. I ended up using 3/16 hose as it fitted the stock breather properly. But i just had to soften it a bit to squeeze it over the Rade tank outlet barbed fitting. Its all done and working nicely so far.
  9. abandoned track

    abandoned track Been here awhile

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    I am kind of late to the Rade tank party, and late in discovering this thread (I might move some of my earlier posts to this thread), hopefully my posts can help others (or point me in the right direction). This tank is being installed on a 2015 690 Enduro.

    My latest modification is to the unused breather cover nipple which has a plastic plug capping it off. My many tries at getting the tank in the right position have always been made more difficult with the tank outlet hitting the nipple. And since I have not uncovered a potential future use for the nipple, it was time to make it shorter. Real easy with my Dremel and a metal cutting disc.

    Next items on my install:
    1. Possible work to the front bracket as shown in someones earlier post. My Seat Concepts seat needs to go forward about another 3/8" and down 1/8" to 1/4". Not sure where I am going to get that clearance yet. It may be the front bracket, it may be removing some of the seat base. After that it may be raising the front stock seat mount disc and adding some kind of spacer for the rubber seat bumpers - I don't like the seat resting on the tank.

    2. Temperature sensor wires resting on wiring harness.

    3. Add more heat shield material to tank. The tank already came with heat shield. I want to add more, if room, to the lower sides and especially to the tank outlet fitting. That brass outlet fitting has to be the item that will get the hottest.

    4. If I get through all that and I haven't given up yet, next will be connecting to the fuel pump. I realize that connecting to the stock tank's breather is the easier method, it's just that I have always liked the idea of being able to isolate the tanks from each other. And I want to pull the fuel pump out, eliminate the filter between the pump and regulator, and inspect. I am a little concerned about the repositioning of the fuel pump, as mentioned on someones post. I have already added a Golan filter in front of the injector (the GP50-Quick-1 from Slavens Racing), and a fuel sock for the rear tank.

    My design for routing the fuel line is similar to others, out the right side. I had to rotate the tank outlet fitting about 35 degrees to get it into that orientation. But what I am going to do that is different is install 2 fuel petcocks and a filter in-between the petcocks. If there is room. The petcock that is the furthest downstream from the Rade tank will allow for draining of the rear tank, with the upstream petcock turned off. I know some are using quick disconnects but I want to be able to control the flow of the fuel when draining. (My knowledge of quick disconnects may be limited)
    Breather cover - before - WP_20200419_20_36_22_Pro_50.jpg
    Breather cover - after - WP_20200419_21_39_20_Pro_50.jpg

    Seat contact gaps - WP_20200420_11_45_20_Pro_50.jpg
    JoeMongo likes this.
  10. cal08

    cal08 Long timer

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    Kudo's on the trimming of the secondary breather. I had not though of that.
  11. aanichols

    aanichols Racer at heart

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    I had a similar positioning issue to yours and I kept working on the bracket and the outlet direction until I finally the tank farther forward and down. It’s definitely a tight fit....Rade should have made the tank a bit smaller. Keep working at it, the wiring may need to move a bit also.
    A better fuel outlet would have been nice also....my original one leaked. The upgraded oring model has been ok.
  12. abandoned track

    abandoned track Been here awhile

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    I have finally finished my Rade tank install (will post some pics later) and my first test was to add a little gas to both tanks and check for leaks.
    No leaks. Added more gas to both tanks.
    Do the 15 minute ECU refresh again.
    My low fuel light was on. This seemed odd, I thought I put at least 1 gallon in the rear tank.
    Bike did not seem to be running smooth. Shut it off.

    For this Rade tank install, this was the first time I ever pulled the fuel pump out and re-installed it. I did not think that it went well. It seemed like I had to use too much force to get everything back into the rear tank.
    I suspect something is kinked, but I can't see inside the tank.

    So I went the route of dismantling everything that is needed to be removed so that I could rotate the tank up. This allowed a little better view and I think the filter and cables were getting stuck inside the narrow channel on the left side of the tank. If I pushed everything to the center or right, I had less resistance until the fuel pump was about half way in. I can push on the pump some more and get it seated, I just don't know what is happening inside.

    One thought is to shorten the fuel lines from the pump to the regulator.
    I am not sure I understand why they need to be so long.

    Where is the low fuel sensor? Is it part of the fuel pump? (never had a problem with the low fuel sensor before)
  13. abandoned track

    abandoned track Been here awhile

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    This post is an answer to a post by "scfrank" on the "2019 ktm 690 enduro ?" thread. I did not want to clutter up that thread. My previous post to this on "2019 ktm 690 enduro ?" is post #4904.
    (https://advrider.com/f/threads/2019-ktm-690-enduro.1341709/page-246#post-40023110)

    I do not have real world experiences yet, I decided to replace my fuel pump and take care of some other items while I have everything apart. The post I referenced was a real world experience by another forum member. That person suspected that the 3/16" ID Rade fuel line was too small. (my Rade fuel line measures 6 mm ID, or about 1/4"). I do not believe the ID of the fuel line is an issue.

    What I believe could be an issue is whatever else is installed between the Rade tank and the rear tank: petcock, fuel filter. In my case, I wanted to install: petcock - filter - petcock. (The 2nd petcock would allow easy draining of the rear tank) The banjo bolt you are stuck with, with the Rade recommended installation.

    The banjo fitting I am referring to is attached to the adapter that Rade supplies that you mount the fuel pump into the bottom of the rear tank. The banjo fitting is Rade supplied.

    My tests were with the Rade tank installed in the bike, and this is the path of fuel flow:
    Rade tank - fuel hose - petcock - fuel hose - filter - fuel hose - petcock - fuel hose - banjo (but not connected to the rear tank yet)

    Fuel flow tests and first configuration.jpg

    These are the test results.
    Fuel flow test results.jpg

    So we go from 3 ml/sec discharge from only the first section of fuel hose, to 1.4 ml/sec discharge through the 1st petcock and a fuel filter. There probably are higher flow fuel filters. But the point is, each fitting adds to the restriction.

    (graduated cylinder used to collect/measure fuel discharge)

    graduated beaker.jpg

    So to determine if the numbers in the chart above mean anything, these are examples of the calculations I used:
    (1 gallon/50 miles) * (70 miles/hour) = 1.40 gallons/hour
    (1 gallon/40 miles) * (70 miles/hour) = 1.75 gallons/hour

    Now compare these numbers to the chart above, the Gal/Hour column. And note that if you are getting 40 MPG at 70 MPH, that requires being able to flow 1.75 gallons in an hour to the fuel pump. Test 1, 2, 3 show that there is not enough fuel for this speed and MPG.

    It would appear that this particular filter drops the discharge by 24 ml. Add that on to test 1 (37 + 24) and the result is 1.9 gallons/hour. Which is better, but seems kind of close at 40 MPG.

    There still are more restrictions before the fuel gets to the fuel pump. Add the banjo bolt and the fuel pump sleeve.

    Note that the inside diameter of the fuel petcock is around 3 mm.

    Below shows the banjo bolt holes which are around 2 mm diameter (there are 4). If I had a nut that I could thread on the banjo bolt, I would have tested with the banjo bolt.
    banjo bolt and fuel pump.jpg
    jesusgatos, JoeMongo, hansi and 2 others like this.
  14. outbacktm

    outbacktm Bullrun Bison Supporter

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    Fine bit of research and report
  15. RoundOz

    RoundOz Plenty of seasoning

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    Seems to me that the correct conclusion is that each fitting adds restriction, but how does this account for the 54 psi fuel pump pulling the fuel from the tanks. I would think that you need to put a pressure gauge after the dry break fitting and a flow-restricted discharge. Run the fuel pump at about 14 volts and throttle the discharge back to the flow rate you have calculated for 70 mph and make sure the fuel pressure doesn't drop too far below 54 psi. If it does your intake restrictions are too high and the bike will start to run lean.
    Edit - partial retraction below.
    scfrank likes this.
  16. hansi

    hansi Teurer Abenteurer Supporter

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    The Rade tank is gravity feed only in the original set up. The stock tank with the pump in it has its own vent at the gas cap, therefore the fuel pump can not create a vacuum in the Rade to pull the gas into the main tank.
    bigbrad and abandoned track like this.
  17. RoundOz

    RoundOz Plenty of seasoning

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    Yes, apologies...the original question in the other thread was posed comparing the standard setup with the siphon hookup method - my thinking went down those lines. Carry on. I also appreciate the test setup methodology used. Nice work.
  18. RoundOz

    RoundOz Plenty of seasoning

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    Of course the quick solution to this is the one John Britten is said to have used while doing one of his early high speed runs and found the V1000 starving for fuel - put the fuel tank vent hose into his mouth and applied a little anti-vacuum. Not sure if its a true story but it fits with his character.
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  19. JoeMongo

    JoeMongo ¿Por dónde? Supporter

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    Probably the fastest/easiest, yet permanent solution (unlike blowing into the tank vent line like John Britten) would be replacing the two restrictive 3mm ID petcocks in your installation (that also have two each restrictive 90 degree bends in each of them) with two Motion Pro 1/4" (6mm fuel line size, 4.5 mm ID) petcocks that have NO 90 degree bends in them (or these, which are ~$12 and are 4.5 mm ID all the way through so have half the resistance to fuel flow).

    You could also look for a free flowing wire mesh fuel strainer, instead of using the sintered metal inline fuel filter.

    Those three things probably would put you back into the acceptable flow range even with that full setup.

    After looking at the tiny little orifice on the petcock in my kit, not yet installed, I'll certainly replace the supplied fuel petcock with a larger ID one, like the Motion Pro 12-0035 or perhaps a Milttor petcock or the one that I linked above.
    j.
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  20. abandoned track

    abandoned track Been here awhile

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    Thank you very much for that info! For some reason I could not find less restrictive petcocks, so I gave up even looking for less restrictive filters. I am at the point of finishing my installation using the siphon method and see how I like it.

    But I think I will install my fuel pump with the Rade attachment (and block off the fuel port) in case I want to try the standard install again.

    I have a Twin Air fuel sock in the rear tank, so the front tank fuel gets filtered going into the rear filler.