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Discussion in 'Parallel World (790/890)' started by Migolito, Feb 5, 2019.
Good eyes Doc!
I'm running a rear haul loop, similar to kriega, couple of brackets for the attachment points on the subframe, works well for when needing to pull/push bike etc..
In case you haven't found out yet:
The heated seat does not have to be 'activated by the KTM diagnostic tool' despite that being stated on every mention of the 790-specific heated Ergo seat on KTM sites.
Nor is it a "3 level" heater, unless, like some lapdog KTM-can-do-no-wrong apologists, you consider OFF to be a 'heat level.'
It's got two levels. When the button glows orange, it's off. Green is low; red is high. When you switch the ignition off and back on, it does not remember the level you left it at; it returns to orange (off). And by the way, the glow of the button is so dim that it's practically impossible to discern what color it is in even overcast daylight. You practically have to drive it into a dark closet. And I recommend re-considering the instructions to mount the switch on the right-side cheap plastic panel. Do you really want to have to let go the throttle just to turn the heat off? Completely stupid design, documentation, and handling on KTM's part.
This is entirely different from the also grossly overpriced KTM-branded heated grips. Those have four levels of heat (yes, plus off) also color-coded. But each level has its own separate LED, which not only is visible in daylight, but different in position, so you do know when they are active, and at what level. And they all go off when the grips are turned off. (What a concept!)
The quickshift feature remains a complete mass of confusion; a total comedy of error, due to KTM's sloppy misinformation to both dealers and customers alike. As you've seen, owners variously proclaim with 'certainty' that:
It's completely functional as standard equipment, except that only its software "off switch" in the instrument panel is inactive unless you pay over $300 to have its menu turned on.
It's half-functional (upshifts only) standard until you pay over $300 to have its menu turned on.
It's functional standard, but will be automatically disabled at the next instrument panel or ECU software update.
You must not use it under 3000 RPM.
You must not use it under 30 MPH.
The (take your pick) caveats affect only (undefined) "early" bikes.
The (take your pick) caveats affect all bikes.
As many different combinations of the above 'facts' as you can arrange.
Meanwhile, the Owner's Manual makes no distinction whatsoever between any assumed "standard quickshift" feature versus an optional "QuickShift+" feature. It only refers to QuickShift+, and only as an optional feature. It instructs to never shift without the clutch if QuickShift+ is not activated in the instrument panel menu.
I've elsewhere detailed my and my Dealer's nightmare of wasted time and money (yes, my time is valuable, too, KTM) over this nonsense, and it's still not resolved.
I've bought four new KTMs in the last 5 years. I carry the card, wear the T-shirt, have the coffee mug. But I don't excuse the inexcusable, and there is no excuse for this crap. KTM needs to get its act together.
Immediately thought about @AdvRonski when read this .. I like his solution and will probably try to create something similar or get it done by local metal dude.
For the Kriega or any other haul loop on top - it tends to be too high for lifting the bike if it gets stuck.
Haven't checked how these exc powerparts grab handles could be fitted to 790 but it would be proper solution as it's anodized and very expensive
The marketing description of the 'Ergo' heated seat claims that it's made with some kind of super-duper foam. Mine feels like it might be a bit less "edgy" than the stock non-R seat, but the difference, if any, is very subtle. The top panel of its cover does have a softer feel than the stock seat, which actually makes it feel less durable.
Frankly, I suspect the fancy-dancy 'ergo foam' is just marketing speak for a thin layer of something added above the heating elements to insulate it from the vinyl cover, too soft and thin to make any difference in terms of actual comfort. But I haven't taken it apart, so don't take that as internet gospel.
I do think if someone randomly swapped the two seats between rides, I would be hard pressed to feel any difference in terms of comfort. The difference between whatever pants I'm wearing at the time would probably be as significant.
As for its being "a freakin board," many riders are more finicky about seats (and "buffeting" and vibration) than I am, so it's a subjective thing. But I will say that the 790's seat (again, mine is a non-R) is no worse than that of my 990 SMT. The 990's seat is similar in shape, and a little softer, but about the same in terms of ride-time tolerance. The harshness of the non-R's cheaped-out suspension is more an issue.
Of course, KTM's dirt bike and dualsport (both 500EXC and 690 Enduro) stock seats are every bit the torture devices they are reputed to be for even a few minutes of road use.
The stock R seat is the best stock seat of any ktm I have ever owned. I know, that’s not saying much! Having Motoseats add some foam to the front (as suggested here) and thereby removing most of the slope made it even better. I actually think the KTM PowerParts offroad seat will be my favorite once I try it next.
The ergo heated seat seems very comfortable to me.
690 seat has plenty of comfort for a day on road - on 500 (or any exc) if you sit long enough to feel uncomfortable, you have a wrong bike or wrong trail.
But you do point out one thing that should always be included in seat talk - pants and to be more specific protective pants that usually have also softening / protection against seat and that makes a huge difference.
For me the stock seat was too low, I felt like sitting onto floor after standing for a while. And I hate the bump preventing flawless movement. I thought that flat wide appearance would give more comfort but didn't notice any so I wen't for the tall seat and it feels overall much better.
As a side note, I do tend to ride standing up at least 30% while on road and 95% offroad..
could be I am just too fat. I returned my ergo seat, it was simply to hard. For my butt to hurt after 30 miles on it vs even more time on the stock with no issue speaks volumes to me. However, I sat on the stock non-R seat, and it seemed pretty nice.
I can't wrap my head around how you guys can have so many issues with the seat of all things, but tbh it's great that we're talking about matters like:
"My bum is a little sore" instead of "My motor just exploded and shot a piston through my pelvis".
Personally I am more comfortable on my PP seat than in my office chair, I don't mind it a bit.
I also did 10 hours days for three weeks straight on the stock 690 seat with no issues, after two or three days I just stop noticing.
I do get that if you put down hard earned cash for something that is marketed as "comfort" or "Ergo" it should make a difference, but hey - it's not a 1200 GS or a G-wing.
TLDR; I am happy the comfort of the seat seems to be the biggest issue at the moment.
Just focus on the ride instead of your oh so soft bum skin.
In fairness the fact that you did 10 hour days back to back for three weeks on a stock 690 seat just means you permanently killed all the nerve endings in your butt. People sleep on a bed of nails too... lol.
There is a period of adaptation and it can be painful for those unaccustomed to it.
Yeah, I was with you until the 690 comment. That nullified the idea that you have any feeling left in your butt or a pain threshold that matches normal humans. Stock 690 seats have been banned by the Geneva Convention along with waterboarding.
I did a 3000 mile tour on my 790 ADV S last summer and the stock seat was surprisingly ok. I could not get anything after market in time for the trip. I considered taking an Alaskan Sheepskin along, but didn't. Keep in mind that the R seat is a bit different...
Although the seat is very firm, it is wide enough to distribute weight pretty well. Perhaps the stock windshield took my mind off the trouble with my ass. All in all, it was a good tour down through the Blue Ridge to NC, over to TN, all around and back to NY. The bike tours way better than expected. Great range, fast, light, easy to ride. Looking forward to the NEBDR this summer. No longer worried about replacing the stock seat...
The R is much the same. I also went on a long ride with the stock seat because there were no options at the time. I found it to be a good seat though I've moved to the oem tall seat now and prefer it.
690 seat is bad, but the alleged seats on the 2017-up EXCs are in another dimension. If you could do a 10 hour day on one of those, you probably also have a naughty lady who wears a lot of pleather and carries a whip on speed dial.
I have an '18 XC-F. The stock seat is a 2x4 covered in vinyl and mostly just a battery cover. When I'm using it for dual sporting the Seat Concepts seat goes on! I'd guess the EXC seat is the same.
Yes; same seat. When the EXCs got the new frame a year later from the SX/XC line in 2017, that’s when the 2x4 arrived.
Yes, I have a SC seat on my 500 EXC. Much better. The stock piece is as described above...
My exc has much better seat than my montesa. But the only one to complain for comfort is my bicycle, it's just hideous.
We should also talk about underwear with seats - they make even bigger difference than protective pants. I did one 750km day with underwear that had thick seams across my butt - burned them and never buy anything that has seams in butt area.
I agree with @Snowq that 690 seat is totally ok for the distance once you get used to it. No such seat that would provide multi-day comfort without practising.
And same goes for exc / xc-f. After few hours of rock garden, thighs burning in flames, hands getting numb and back hurting like hell, sitting down on that comfy 2x4 to get some rest on 5sec flat spot feels soooo good
LD Comfort shorts are really worth it IMHO. I also typically wear Under Armor compression boxer briefs like these. No seams, a bit of compression. Helps a lot.