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Discussion in 'Parallel World (790/890)' started by TrailTrauma, Oct 26, 2019.
Hmmm.... I didn’t know it was possible to ollie a motorcycle.
Colour me impressed.
Great advice from advronski.
I do much the same, or at least try to on the big beast.
Quickly moving weight back to lighten front, aggressive blip, then try to shift weight forwards as soon as I am "confident" the front will clear the gap to get the rear to follow suit.
My best advice to get a feel for it if you don't have tons of small bike hours behind you is to grab just a normal bicycle (incl pedals) and go over what ever you can find in your backyard without having the wheels touch it - and dont ollie, just move your weight back and front.
Then grab the beast and go over some small logs, or a small ditch, speed comes later.
Do this until your spine can do it by itself.
And please Trauma, slow the hell down - If you don't have time to react youre going to fast.
We can't have a washout rob us of the best Advbeard we've had in a long time.
You don't need a Chris Birch nooner to get over a little ditch. You just need the weight transferred to the back and off the front wheel for it to skip over.
Try make use of the terrain and make use of any sort of kicker before the ditch to help lighten the front as well. Something just a few cm high can let you clear quite a big ditch.
It's all about skillz...
There is a lot of wisdom in this video (also a lot of crazyness).. Guy had crashbars, centerstand, stock muffler at least hanging on left, both rotors on front and stock windshield etc. I believe suspension is not stock, if it is, he might not be a human. Wisdom is... few kg is nothing if you have technique. I'm still gonna lighten up my bike but just because I know I have to pick it up every now and then
One big issue besides technique is mental approach. If you are afraid and unsure possibility to fail is almost certain. It is not easy to trust yourself and decide that I know what to do and go for it.
I recently played with 250 in woods and there was two logs with couple m interval, slightly angled and a bit on air - all my head could do was to think what happens if front hits that slippery angled log in speed that had enough room below to fit leg. First I crawled/pushed over 'em and then I finally got myself together and wen't for it - it felt like the smallest bump in enduro track, just tiny few m hop over using the first log as kicker - it was like nothing. Then went multiple times on both directions smiling like an idiot - obviously all the risks are still there but way more chances to success as I new I can do it.
Next summer I will try some of this stuff also with 790 - with confidence (that might be gone in seconds ).
How often do you get out ridden by a guy with a fanny pack?
^^Needs it to carry his stones.
That and a bilateral thoracostomy kit, with a few turniquettes. I'd ad a a litre of saline, a IO and a DNR haha
Trust the suspension and don't go to slow.
Ok, riding position...
I MUCH prefer standing, and will happily stand for an hour down the hwy to the trail, and 2 hrs on the trails and then finally sit mostly on the drive home. The hwy standing, admittedly is borne out of two things - first I rode a HOG out here in the country for too many yrs, longing to have an adv bike I could stand on, so on the 790 I'm still enamoured by that ability that I probably stand too much ha. And secondly, I view it as a type of simple hardening. It's my way of working out, and developing that specific stamina. On the trail it's my go-to position. You know when you throw yourself back in an easyboy chair and you let out that great sigh of relief? Thats what happens whenever I stand .. everything just goes zen, and I relax, and probably only breath half a dozen times a minute it's so deeply relaxing. I've even heard myself on cam saying as much.
Maybe thats why I brought up attack position strength in the 790 thread - it's almost so relaxing at times I'm aware I might get caught off guard. So now I'm bringing in a routine practice where I am regularly looking for trail junk to pressure check whether I'm strong enough in my position as I hit whatever I'm coming at. IF I happen to be sitting, I only ever raise my ass a bit off the seat if I feel I need more peg pressure, or wish to unweight for a second.
Initially I felt the bars too far away in the middle (OEM) position to be able to get elbows up, and have decent leverage over the bars. This is when I first got the bike, was working things out and sat the majority of the time. Now that I'm standing I feel like the bars are too close.
So for those of you who, like me, enjoy the benefits of standing the majority of the time what in your years of riding has become your standard position? This is a hard ask since we're all built differently, I realize.
* I guess one quick measure might be how far off the seat your ass is - or more importantly, how much of a bend is in your knees.
I have a decent bend in my knees, but I do not ride around with my ass barely off the seat, like I do if I were sitting, and then half stand for some quick obstacle. I prefer to stand with less knee bend. I'm discovering though that the closerer bar position while standing is just too close I think. The stronger position I'm striving for is with knees bent, while elbows are out and up (almost like your a few feet from your kitchen counter and fall in for a push up type position. Right now I feel like the counter (bars) is too close, so when I take up the push up position, even if my elbows are bent and up, they are too close to my trunk to affect enough bracing power. I can 3 things complementing a better riding position:
* Lower, rearward pegs
* 690'ish bar bend for less unnatural sweep back
* Relocating the bars back to around centre
How did you guys create your optimum 'bracing' attack position in your cockpit, or riding posture while standing?
Something needs to change up, because as some noted, I may be riding a bit like a meerkat haha
I haven't had enough riding time w/ 790 to find perfect position and I do tend to adjust myself rather than bike But that streetbike sweep was just too much after a decade of exc / 690 thumpers.
When doing enduro track I sit every place where possible to rest my feet, usually it's possible only few sec here and there. On adv 'tracks' there is usually much more flat sections and while standing it doesn't wear feet out so quickly. Standing is my 'rally response mode' and I set bike accordingly w/ tc=1 or off and when ready to go home - sit down, thr=street, tc=3-6 and just cruising with thoughts on scenery or whatever.
Traveling is another story, usually sit all the time and just slightly lift up for bumps etc. stand only on rough sections or when in need for break from sitting.
My progression went like this:
- Total noob, have to sit, standing feels like I'm out of control and the bike is gonna shoot out from under me. Terrified.
- Get the hang of standing. Stand EVERYWHERE when on dirt.
- Getting more comfortable, start sitting on obviously flat sections.
- Even more comfortable, sit always until terrain says standing is necessary.
I guess that last point starts requiring worse and worse terrain to get you to stand as you get more competent. Some guys I ride with almost never stand. When they do suddenly stand up I know I'm in trouble haha
So many variation in standing...
from just lifting the bum to avoid hits into your spinals,
to all the way up like a meerkat to spot the next starbucks.
Somewhere in between is that attack mode Birchy praises,
slightly varying due to your bike triangle and your limbs.
That attack mode is best for shifting your weight and moving the bike underneath, no doubt.
But also, it is by far most exhausting on long days out. (Be honest, you can't keep attack stance for hours!)
Those guys standing all day are simply doing it wrong, standing like a candle with straight legs, that's relaxing.
OK easy to bend from there to eat some potholes, but not that good for fast reaction to unload the front or do emergency breaking.
For me its: Get up when you have to!
I must be the more TobyPrice kinda rider (lazy! ha!),
sitting on the fast and easy stretches and getting up for rough and/or technical stuff.
I did not mod my 790R to my perfect triangle (yet), but pretty close.
Using KTM bar risers (+47mm) and R/G foot pegs (-15mm).
Will go for the higher PP seat to make sitting->standing even easier.
Might mess around a bit more with different bar positions and angle.
Me: 6'3" / 36" inseam
I only get up when I have to. When it gets really technical. The rest of the time I stay seated and relaxed and let the suspension do the job. But I’m less than 80kg in full gear and on pro suspension. Bigger riders will have no choice but stand more and help the suspension handle terrain and pace. Especially when stock suspension is set for average 75-85kg guy.
Are we talking about standing because we like to stretch out and see a little better and feel the bike move al title while we “Ho-dee-hum” around whatever terrain we’re upon, or are we talking about riding in what’s widely referred to as the attack position where we’re aggressively poised for the next obstacle or turn and ready to make the bike do the work for us?
At my age, I ride to survive.
You’ve got my respect riding a versus on that. Not terrible on better suspension, but.
This falls under the new-to-the-rider trail riding (wide single, double @ speed). Managing to create that triangle which puts the rider in the best position for being able to brace. I'm always standing so I can moving in and out of turns with a decent speed, as well as see whats coming up ahead. But on a ride last month, something opened my eyes to my seeming inability to adequately brace. That puddle vid I posted where I entered the first puddle nice and conservatively which ended up being maybe 4" deep, after which I sped up a bit to 32kmh and hit the second. All the puddles in that area have always been solid and predictable, but that second for some reason dropped a few feet at least judging from the footage in slowmo. It climbed out but hitting that drop, and square edge on the bottom sent my body quite a ways forward to the point where my cam is actually facing the headlight. ha So even at modest speeds I'm looking to develop a strong triangle so being caught unaware will still be something I can instinctively against.
Thinking about it, it becomes very clear that pulling the bar perch back towards me was not ideal. Now that I've found my pace on the 790, I can begin moving it forward again to strengthen that triangle. Which is why the 690 bar bend comment caught my eye. Just looking at it, it looks more natural. The bar ends are less swept back, which supports a natural elbows high and out posture.
I'm always thinking muscle memory when I'm out riding, and I hate to create poor programming so I think it's worthwhile for a rider to think about their own triangle, and to decide whether it's optimal for them. Are they comfortable? Is there strain rearing it's ugly head anywhere? Does it feel better on the flats, but strain the neck on hilly terrain? (my case), is your triangle strong enough to naturally brace you when the trail condition demand it does or does it collapse and send you launching?
Your triangle can seem fine, and you can ride along with knees bent, elbows out slightly and all the rest, but it may not mean in a crunch you're capable of adequately bracing in that geometry. It's worth exploring...
I rotated my bars forward, which had the dual effect of raising the grips as the sweep moved upwards, while also decreasing the sweep backwards. I then swung the lever perches up to compensate. Its not exactly perfect yet, but it really improved my stance. Before messing anymore with the bar, I think I will get lower/larger footpegs.
After that, if I need to, I do have a stock 350 handlebar that I can try.
When I go out to just ride I usually go for 'physical training' so I aim to wear myself and be all tired and sweaty when come back. I try to keep the pace so that standing is needed for leaning grip to front (and push rear to slide). Obviously it's not attack mode all the time and sitting when feel like it but the idea is to be active on the bike according to terrain. If it's flat and there's a small rock, I try to wheelie or jump from it. If trail has a flat side and one with ruts'n'rocks I'll take the latter. I use kneebraces that are not so comfy on sitting but does not allow straight feet.
I rarely go to just cruise around, I consider this hobby as sport.