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Discussion in 'Parallel World (790/890)' started by StratfordJohn, Oct 8, 2019.
No joy for me with multiple positions attempted on a MS 18". Just sayin.
It will be good, without any doubt
Same for me.
Its a quality piece of gear, especially the ability to adjust up and down, just could not dodge the buffeting. I have heard at least one or two positive reviews on the Puig...
do all of you have stock mirrors still? Just trying to keep track. I have a small pile of parts I’ll be installing soon, mirrors being one and I already have a small screen extender installed. Just haven’t been able to get out for even a short ride
I have stock mirrors. But I moved to the low fender from the S.
I tried the stock S screen and the Madstad with stock mirrors, Doubletake ADV mirrors, round foldable KTM mirrors and no mirrors. Made no difference.
I am 5'8". Two different helmets tested with both set ups and no difference was noticed. HJC RHPA 90 and an LS2 MX436 (ADV style with visor).
Would it be possible to know your height and the helmet used?
I know you weren’t asking me but if it helps
5’11” - stock R screen - stock mirrors - Shoei vfx evo - visor on or off doesn’t really make a difference. Even tried a full face aria and didn’t change all that much.
A lot of turbulence at highway speeds.
It's good to know Casey.
We have tested three different heights the Adventure (not the R - the R is the one that we modified) model against the 790 kit. We are three different riders I am 1.83 (6'), next inline is 2.00 (6'.7'') third rider about 1.78 (5'.10'').
We used LS2 Subverter, VX3, Arai RX7V, Arai Quantum and Klim Krios. Bike remember is the R model (hence the seat higher).
From the image below, one can easily see that the air from the screen is directed towards the helmet and will result in buffering one way or the other. In our case, the stock model was actually worst, I could easily feel something above my head swirling around, the rally shield was not whispering quiet like a vespa, I mean I could feel air on my helmet, but no buffering. Those who have ridden the Xplorer,Lite or the 9x0 series, it's a very similar feeling. I am taking about speeds up to 150km/hr. The other thing is that with the Adventure (not the R) the seat is lower, hence the protection will be even better. We could not modify that bike as it was a KTM loan from KTM South East Europe who assist in the project.
I have an S screen on my R. I am 6'2" with a 33" inseam using a Scorpion 950 helmet. There is noticeable buffeting from the screen at highway speeds (60-85 mph). If i shrug my shoulders and angle my head down to view out of the very top portion of the visor the buffeting is significantly less to almost none. In cold weather I prefer the S screen and had no problem vaulting over it when unintentionally dismounting on the last trip. In warmer weather I'll stay with the R screen but for fall on the S is worth it until a better option is available.
I’ve been thinking about it, but haven’t tried it as of yet.. But has anyone tried shimming the standard shield? I wonder if we were to shim it to stand more upright, if that will help with the buffeting.
6 2 using a shark modular, flipped back and in full face mode
I think you have wildly oversimplified the fluid dynamic model that represents the possible airflow around over and behind various shaped and angled wind screens at speed to the point that your conclusions are not useful.
Pictures from 790 FB group.
Some claim its an improvement but some have gone to the Rade screen soooooooo.........
To answer in a more scientific way, the case you are analyzing above is so simple, that it will have no use in the getting reasonable results. There are so many variables for buffering. Mirrors, air ducts and air guides, shape of the tank, helmet used, rider height, rider position (proud or tucked), velocity of the vehicle, weather and lots lots lots of other stuff. All that air traveling all over the place, will upset that pocket you are talking about. The vertical analysis above is not correct as the screen itself is not just a 'door' that you put in front of the bike. Look at well known screens which have holes to direct air behind the screen in an attempt to stop that turbulence and get rid of multiple effects (the vespa paradox with the huge shield and the hair of the rider being blown forward, an effect that the cabrio cars had as well). It's way too complex even for the CFD software programs in 2020, let alone that most brands don't use a wind tunnel for these models. Look at the 2019 rally bike, and look at the sitting position of the riders when going at 170km/hr. The are tucked behind it. This screen is to minimise the resistance and allow the bike to go faster, not so much to protect the rider (the shape shows that as well).
I think in general, even a novice eye can understand what the screen will ''potentially'' do, but the trap is that you have to understand that this 'pocket' is fully dynamic. All aerodynamic parts (handguards, plastic air guides etc. ) will affect the final result. It's better to imagine air as water, sometimes will help the untrained eye 'visualise' better the path.
Monster in the closet, possible that eliminating or 90% 790 buffeting is impossible... Then again, I have heard good things about the Puig. As soon as MS refunds my $, i will probably give that one a try, although I'd like some warmer weather for testing...
Edit: I wrote a short note saying that @jmarleau oversimplification could mislead people into paying for a solution that still didn't solve the problem, but I then saw that @640 Armageddon did a much better job of explaining it. Thanks for that...
Darn guys. It’s a 790 adventure bike... Maybe this is your solution:
I am going to die inside if there is no eventual solution. Releasing a 14k 800cc ADVENTURE bike that has a buffering problem that can’t be solved is a catastrophic disaster.
I’m actually surprised how bad the stock buffeting is. Did KTM think that no one needed to take these things on the highway? That’s the entire business case for this bike. If we didn’t need to do that we would all be on 690s or 500 excs.