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Discussion in 'Parallel World (790/890)' started by StratfordJohn, Oct 8, 2019.
If you want a windscreen for the purpose they are intended get the Madstad.
The key to all these windshields is putting spacers so the air will travel underneath.
I look over it. Really nice setup for me. My eyes are probably 6-8" over the top of the screen. I went with the light gray as I thought the darker colors would make it look even bigger.
@theDoktor Interested to hear your experience. It seems so different for everyone.
Hahah thanks @rowdyred94 It’s freaking brutal, that is for sure. If I couldn’t solve it, it would have been a deal breaker and major bummer. That’s cool to hear my theory might have some validity.
I just re-read your response and understand what you’re saying now lol there’s really no validity to my theory
Whoa! that doesn’t look bad at all! Looks kinda nice, actually. I think it balances out the aggressive headlight nicely. But most important, it works for you!!!! Stoked for you.
Just wanted to throw down an update...
So I wore my Biltwell Lane Splitter helmet today and it was so clean! Remember, I removed the front winglets under the light and felt a nigh & day difference when wearing my Aria XD-4 with visor, but the Lane Splitter was super clean, like zero turbulence, even at +80mph. So I decided to remove the visor on the XD-4 and compare.
The XD-4 without the visor was really clean, too! Although it was not as clean as the Lane Splitter. Then I thought: Maybe it was the visor and not the wings. So I put the winglets back on...
Nope. The winglets are a major issue. I couldn’t even go 55mph for one freeway exit before I started seeing double and got a headache. This was wearing the XD-4 without the visor. For the sake of a more thorough experiment, I subjected myself to one more ride using the Lane Splitter with the winglets on. I didn’t even make it to the freeway. Just going 45mph I could tell it was going to be hell. I still have a headache as I write this.
I’m convinced. The winglets are no bueno for me.
With windscreens you are usually looking at one of two methods.
a) something so big, or aerodynamically designed that you are shielded from the full force of the wind
b) Something positioned so that you chest is protected, but your head is in clean air. This is what Schuberth recommends for the quietest ride, and is more easily achievable than the above.
It's a shame more companies don't invest the time and money to research and design their screens properly. They don't even need wind tunnel time these days, computational fluid dynamics should be enough.
The worst bikes I'd had for it have all bee adventure bikes. Riding the 650 Dakar back from London at 75mph was pure torture. Second was the 950 Adventure which only got worse with the Rade Garage carbon rally screen. It looked pretty good though.
What size clip-on did you get for your Bike?
I have a KTM 790 Adventure and am 6'1"
I had a Madstad on my previous ADV, a Tiger Explorer. It worked well but it was definitely "a) something so big, or aerodynamically designed that you are shielded from the full force of the wind." The 790 aesthetic cries out for something a little more svelte, so I'm going to experiment with the winglet removal first if it would ever stop snowing and blowing here.
Been following this thread since May 2020. I didn't remember seeing anyone post about contacting KTM, so I sent them a note inquiring whether they had plans to offer a winglet redesign alternative or other fixes for the buffeting (I included a link to this forum). Here was the response I received: "I can’t speak for future models but it could be an option in the future. As for aftermarket, those companies might try to come up with a solution to address added wind protection. We will have to see though. Hope you’re able to be out enjoying your 790!"
Adding my experience: 790 R w/ stock screen, 5'8", 30" inseam, Shoei RF-1400 and Schuberth e1, earplugs, winglets removed, screen low or high (doesn't make a difference), Amazon clip-on deflector minimizes buffeting wind noise. Have tested with mirrors off, screen removed, only things that worked were removing the winglets and the deflector install. More wind comes up under the screen than I'd like and the bike's appearance is impacted w/o the winglets but it works.
Well thats a BS response if I've ever seen one. Thanks for being proactive though.
Yeah, that was more than I expected from KTM. How long did the response take?
Amazingly, KTM responded in 2 days. Didn’t take much research to say what they said, still give them minor props for responding at all.
What position do you find that the deflector works best for you?
I just got my Amazon deflector and short R windscreen in the mail. Going to do some more experimenting today.
I did find enough relief for an hour of 60mph+ by only removing the winglets. But it creates more helmet noise than any bike I’ve ever ridden, and there are still pockets of turbulence around the head.
For me it’s usually best parallel to the windshield but sometimes with a strong headwind it will be better angled towards my chest. As you note, just have to play with it and see what works best.
Well, I inadvertently tried riding without the lower deflectors this afternoon. I went over to the local dealer for an unrelated reason, battling 20-30 mph headwinds. Tried to do my business at the dealer, got ready to leave and discovered one of the screws holding the deflector on had fallen out so it was just dangling. Went over to the service department and had them remove both deflectors because I didn't have any tools with me. Stopped by parts to get a replacement screw, and of course they didn't have any in stock.
Anyway, so I ride the bike home, and notice the air is a little cleaner but I was also picking up more road noise from the front tire. The ride home I had a 20-30 mph tailwind, so inconclusive inadvertent experiment, but I think it's worth pursuing, along with a taller screen.
I have, and the TT vario spoiler will stay on the bike. For me it was definitely a worthwhile addition which reduces buffeting and noise noticeably - leading to less fatigue overall. At our regular Autobahn speeds of 75 to 80 mph the R screen works better now. Without the spoiler it seemed prone to high noise levels and buffeting from crosswinds and/or turbulent air (vehicle in front). Only in tunnels it could be eerily quiet sometimes.
One thing I have learned from all this: Just because one spoiler does not help does not mean that a different kind will not either. The MSR VSA spoiler did not work for me, but the TT vario spoiler does. I am not sure if the different shape of the two spoilers matters much, but the TT version can be adjusted way lower (as can be seen on my two pictures) which is what seems to make most difference on the 790.
Anyhow, I am quite happy with the result, this will allow me to ride long distances without dreading it and my overall mood when arriving will probably be improved as well. The winglets get to stay which I am happy about, I like the additional weather protection.
I wasn’t able to do as much testing as I hoped today (damn rain), but I did get a few more configurations tested out and I feel like I’ve found my solutions. There will be no paper published, just this anecdotal evidence.
This is the order of what had the most effect on the horrible brain rumbling phenomenon and noise:
Winglets - absolute fail in design here. I can’t find what these help with. Personally, I don’t connect with the aesthetics of the front end, so the lack of them makes no visual difference to me––i.e. I couldn’t like it any less. All I find is that the winglets create an unbearable and likely brain damaging effect... It’s not just a feeling, or a sound, or even turbulence...it’s something else, something evil. Like, if the military could create a weapon that had this effect on people, it would be a game changer.
Helmet - Night and day difference for me in any configuration at speeds above 50mph. Without the winglets, my Biltwell Lane Splitter is super clean, calm and quiet. The Arai XD-4 is nice, but definitely catches more air and is a bit louder. It is a lot better without the visor, but nowhere near as calm and quiet as the Lane Splitter. Regardless, when the evil winglets are installed, the hellish effect penetrates both the Lane Splitter and the XD-4 with equal measure.
Screen - Zero difference on winglet torture nightmare. Maybe a little difference on sound. With the S windscreen, higher was quieter, and lower was louder. With the S windscreen in highest position, adding an Amazon spoiler on the lowest setting parallel to windscreen was really nice (This is with no winglets. I added the winglets to this config and the awful brain rumbling returned). R windscreen is the loudest, but with the relatively clean air, it feels better to me––as long as I don’t have to slab very far.
Seat height - As you might expect, no effect on the winglets brain torture effect. No difference really in sound. I like it low.
For me, a pattern has emerged. The winglets produce a weird phenomenon that makes riding this bike over 60mph for more than a handful of minutes completely and utterly unbearable. They are off my bike for good and 100% out of my picture. I will never look back.
For mostly pavement, long-distance touring, I’ll have the S windscreen on highest setting with a spoiler on the lowest setting and parallel to the windscreen. I’ll be wearing my Biltwell Lane Splitter as well. Without the winglets, this is really pure and very enjoyable. So stoked I found a solution.
For more off-road focused adventures, I’ll have the R windscreen on it’s lowest setting with no spoiler and I’ll wear my Arai XD-4 with the visor. Better peripheral visibility, more breathable, and I feel like the visor is a must off-road.
I realize there are a lot of variables and it will be different for everyone. This worked for me. I’m 5’7 with 30” inseam.
I burnt my winglets, I hate them that much....
...For more off-road focused adventures, I’ll have the R windscreen on it’s lowest setting with no spoiler and I’ll wear my Arai XD-4 with the visor. Better peripheral visibility, more breathable, and I feel like the visor is a must off-road.
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I realize there are a lot of variables and it will be different for everyone. This worked for me. I’m 5’7 with 30” inseam.[/QUOTE]
Which Amazon spoiler did you get?
I got this one: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08HCX4J96/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_T9DS8HE9BY3TXT478599?psc=1