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KTM E-XC Charging Inquiry

Discussion in 'Electric Motorcycles' started by aleksbaron, Feb 4, 2019.

  1. aleksbaron

    aleksbaron Blessed with Purpose Supporter

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    For those in the States with an electric KTM.

    I live on a military base and would not be able to convert my electric to 230V to charge the battery, are there workarounds without touching any of the electrical lines? I need to make sure there are no other options before I move away from entertaining the idea of getting an electric bike.

    Best,

    Aleks in AZ
    #1
  2. dentvet

    dentvet Long timer

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    You might be able to rig up a custom supply cord that is plugged into two different 120v branches if you are forbidden to plug into the electric range or clothes dryer outlet. I'm assuming that you actually have a 240 volt supply into your housing,,,,,

    Get some professional advice so you don't burn down the barracks, though.

    Generator?
    #2
  3. aleksbaron

    aleksbaron Blessed with Purpose Supporter

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    Good ideas, it's on post housing and all appliances that I can reach are 120V including the washer and my gas dryer. I am sure we get 240V to the house just no plugs available to access. Any links that show how to use two 120V branches?
    #3
  4. aleksbaron

    aleksbaron Blessed with Purpose Supporter

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    #4
  5. Plawa

    Plawa ¿ʞO ǝʞᴉq ʎɯ sI

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  6. Neil E.

    Neil E. Been here awhile

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    Check the main electrical panel into your building (ie shut off the power and remove the panel cover). Typically the incoming wires will be (1) Black, (1) Red and (1) White. Either black OR red to white gives you 120V (phase to neutral). Black to red gives you 240V (phase to phase). If in doubt have an electrician check for you.
    #6
  7. ctromley

    ctromley Long timer

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    I know nothing of the KTM, but typical EV chargers are universal input. Something like 90 - 260 VAC, 50 - 60 Hz input. That allows them to accept any voltage just about anywhere, with only the need to change plugs. Look it up in your manual, or the charger itself probably has a label that lists it. If your line voltage is not listed or not in the range of voltages it accepts, don't try it. You'll likely let the magic smoke out of something. Magic smoke is expensive to replace. Note that if it works, charging on 120 VAC will take twice as long.

    Don't be playing with improvised 240 from two 120 outlets. Living on post you'll certainly want to ask first, and I'm betting you'll be shot down. It can work, but you have to know what you're doing. And watch it like a hawk. Depending on the type of charger you connect this bootleg double-cord to, it's possible that if one of the plugs remains plugged in while the other is unplugged, the prongs on the unplugged one will be live. Not what anyone would expect, and very dangerous. Do NOT go there.
    #7
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  8. aleksbaron

    aleksbaron Blessed with Purpose Supporter

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    Thank you for the input and warning, I agree that on 120 it will just take double the time but I think the charge pack with the KTM may know it is not receiving 240V and might not work. If anyone has tried this chime in.
    #8
  9. dentvet

    dentvet Long timer

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    I had no idea that my suggestion was already commercially available:) https://www.steam-brite.com/power-j...lt-outlets-volt-wire-reverse620r-p-79450.html

    "
    00% Faster charge than with level one charging. Commonly used as an electric wall unit air conditioner, Turbocord plugs, all plug in hybrids and EV including but not limited to: BMW 330e, BMW 740e, BMW i8, BMW X5 xDrive40e, Chevy Volt, Chevy Bolt EV, Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid, Cadillac ELR, Honda Clarity, Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV, Fiat 500e, Ford Evos Hybrid, Ford Focus EV, Ford C-Max, Ford C-Max Energi, Kia Soul EV, Mercedes-Benz C350e, Mercedes-Benz GLE550e, Mercedes-Bens S550e, Prosche Cayene E-Hybrid, Porsche Panamera E-Hybrid, Tesla Roadster, Tesla Model X, Tesla Model S 70D, Tesla Model S P85D, Toyota Prius Prime, Toyota Prius Plug-in, Mini Countryman, Nissan Leaf, BMW i3 REx, BMW E-Golf, Audi A3 Sportback, Audi A3 e-Tron, Hyundai Ioniq, Subaru Crosstrek PHEV, Volvo XC90, and many more. Quick 220.
    • No Electrician Required to make 240 volts!"
    #9
  10. ctromley

    ctromley Long timer

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    After reading the thread that Plawa linked to, it appears that your charger is not universal input and only 240 will do. (Seems to me that's an epic fail on KTM's part - it wouldn't have been hard to use universal input, and 240 makes this potentially a major pain.)

    Look for a place where a clothes dryer, electric stove, etc. might be. If you find one, see what kind of receptacle it has and make up a cord for it. Use wire gauge heavy enough for the maximum current draw that the higher-rated cable end (stove or dryer plug and whatever the KTM uses) can accept. Also note that the dryer/stove/whatever is on a dedicated circuit because the appliance will draw all it will give. So don't plan on doing anything cute to have it remain plugged in while you charge. Charge only when the appliance isn't used.

    The only other thing I can think of is to use a 2:1 transformer with a high enough VA rating to cover the maximum charger draw. One would assume the KTM charger is isolated, so the transformer doesn't need to be. (Continue the ground wire to the bike!) It will be pricey unless you can find it surplus or used. The problem here is that a 15 A outlet should only be run at 12 A (80%) continuously, which means it will only be 6 A at the 240 V side. If your charger draws more than that it will pop the breaker.

    Seriously, KTM, think it through. If you're going to sell in the US, mount a charger that can run on US power. How common are portable generators with a 240V outlet?

    Just saw this:
    It would seem to me this ONLY works if you find two outlets on different legs of your 240 V service. (Probably not available in the same room.) Different circuits on the same leg can only provide 120 V, and might very well violate local codes. Well, actually (thinking as I write here), building codes only apply to house wiring, not what you plug into it. I didn't see any UL, ETL or other listing for this device. I have to wonder if any agency would approve it.

    Granted I know just enough about electricity to be dangerous, but I know there are a lot of people who would look at this and shudder. Maybe it's perfectly safe, but the basic premise goes against accepted practice. I'm not the expert I would need to evaluate it before I'd use it. Such an expert's first question is likely to be how they isolate the two plugs until both are plugged in, and what the failure modes of that method are.
    #10
  11. aleksbaron

    aleksbaron Blessed with Purpose Supporter

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    Available but defeats the purpose in mind as now I have fossil fuel engine that charges an electric bike, likely, no difference when you consider the electricity comes from coal. I want to avoid a generator as its just another engine to maintain and then I might as well go for a regular bike.

    Thank you for the input and suggestions, something to consider but perhaps time is needed for the market to improve.
    #11
  12. Chadx

    Chadx my toot toot

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    aleksbaron, did you ever determine if you will be able to access 240V? If you have a garage area, you may just be able to talk base housing into doing the install. Don't know until you ask. Maybe make a PR opportunity out of it (talk to the base newspaper and get them on board before making the request). Good PR for "going green/electric" and the base being willing to support it.


    For others to reference in the future: https://chargethebike.com/how-to-charge-ktm-electric-dirt-bike-in-usa/
    (Edit: link fixed)
    #12
  13. Cromoth

    Cromoth fan of the magic carpet ride

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    Non-gas, battery (Lithium) powered 'generators' exist; some call them power stations. You just need one that puts out 240V, 13A. Multiply those to get 3120W & add a 20% buffer so you want a 4000W continuous source. 13A is KTM Fast mode charging. 10A normal mode would mean a less expensive generator at 3000W. $2-5K.
    These could range from an expensive box (Tesla Powerwall) to DIY. I'm sure you can find folks on base with skills & tools to help you build one. If you get/make it portable & plan on 10yrs ownership, it might make sense. In the future, this could power your off-grid or grid tied home & use solar as it's source.
    https://www.electriccarpartscompany...4-Lithium-Battery-Solar-Energy-Storage-System
    Also ask them about 'custom' & check https://www.evwest.com/catalog/index.php
    https://qccharge.com/pages/quick220-and-adapter
    #13
  14. smdub

    smdub Been here awhile

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  15. backpain

    backpain Been here awhile

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    #1 - aleksbaron, thank you, sir. Do not want to hijack your thread, but I have similar (not exact) needs. Not sure gas generator is an option in your case. But, thought it best to accumulate all the input here.

    Need: Charge the e-xc when purpose-built 240v US service is not available. Portable power _OR_ 120v service available.

    Inverter powered by multiple sources? Certainly possible, but equipment can cost as much as a generator. Assume for the moment that creative combination of multiple 120v receptacles is cost or feasibility prohibited.

    Portable generator requirements? Shoot holes in this one - https://www.harborfreight.com/engin...life-gas-powered-generator-epa-iii-63962.html. Substitute a better brand with similar spec, as needed. Granted, a high end consumer version (Honda, Yamaha, etc) or industrial brand with similar spec is probably $2-4k.

    If for a moment we assume the HF generator quality vs $$ is “good enough”. Are its specs good enough?
    - Relatively cheap at less than $500
    - Can handle KTM’s quick charge 13a within its continuous rating: 3500 continuous watts, 240v
    - No idea how “clean” the power is, nor whether volatile power will harm the KTM equipment

    Viable for occasional use? Viable for regular use (assuming the geny holds up)?
    #15
  16. backpain

    backpain Been here awhile

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  17. ex250mike

    ex250mike Long timer

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    don't hurt your back lugging that around.
    #17
  18. backpain

    backpain Been here awhile

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    Yeah, it's not convenient, other than easy to buy. 15% less power is 50% less size, but I wanted at least 20A to ensure no problems, and, of course needed 240v. Much larger than next size down and at least 50lbs heavier. Limited choices under $2k.

    If it can handle this:
    IMG_5232.JPG


    Then it should handle this:
    IMG_5229.JPG


    I just need to finish swapping one pigtail end to this:
    IMG_5234.JPG
    #18
  19. Cromoth

    Cromoth fan of the magic carpet ride

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  20. backpain

    backpain Been here awhile

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    Update: worked flawlessly. Charged as per the KTM published charge times.
    #20
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