KTM/Husky TPI Fuel Injected Two-Stroke Owners Thread

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by Lager Meister, Mar 31, 2018.

  1. RideFreak

    RideFreak Torque Junky

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    Yeah, they'll quit after an hour if it doesn't connect to the mothership. I was told it's to make sure when it's sold it's registered to a dealer plus it ensures the bike gets the latest map. They caught some unscrupulous dealers holding on to the KTM paperwork until the EOY discounts were offered. That was back in the '08-'11 gen, when they went to FI that function appeared in the ECUs. Ever since there's the occasional owner reporting that their bikes quit after an hour. Mine came in the crate but they opened it enough to flash the ECU which doesn't require it to be running.
    alvincullumyork and Bitingdog like this.
  2. RoboD

    RoboD Adventurer

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    My understanding was that Athena thought enough was corrected in the 2020's that the relocator plate was necessary to make the GET ECU worth the money.
    Taco Moto's map for my GET made my bike scream in performance mode...it stepped up significantly, no question. It also all but removed the flat spot in the performance map. If I hold steady at low RPMs for a while, the machine still has issues (though they are much lighter) but it is ridable and makes me quite happy. In the soft map, it's not really ridable. Taco Moto has been working with me to adjust the soft map to make it work well too....I initially did about 8 hours of tweaking but as I said in a previous post, I can't quite get it. I believe once I solve the root cause, that GET ECU is awesome (may be that JD Tuner or another option is awesome enough for a lower price but I already bought GET ECU).

    I think the real issue is the CCPs & idle screw combination: (I think the combo the bike was given to me has tolerances for emissions that are just too tight to be met without a tune and idle screw adjustment. There have also been multiple stories about replacing the CCPs with good results)
    RideFreak referenced another post elsewhere that talked about Crank Case Pressure (CCP) and how he thought a U236 Space Modulator (j/k - potentiometer that might adjust resistance to the right level for an individual's bike from the sensor to ECU) might do the trick. So I went off to that 'other' thread and reached out to a guy that solved the problem for his 2020 250 XCW. He replaced the CCPs with new ones and did the Slaven's idle screw mod. He said between those two things, his bike now runs perfectly. The CCPs are $40.29 a piece after tax from Rocky Mountain ATV (part number 131307016036 on their invoice for my 2020 TE250I). What if the CCPs just had a a run of bad parts and that is behind it? I decided I couldn't just chance that. They are in a box on my night stand waiting for me to have time to install them. Some guys have said the test of pulling the vacuum hose and plugging the fitting test didn't show them anything while replacing the CCPs still fixed the issue. Hope this helps.
  3. nopper

    nopper Been here awhile

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    Maybe I wasn't totally clear: the powervalve itself wasn't out of spec (at least we presume it wasn't)
    It was the adjuster screw that was wound in almost completely, making the bike impossible to ride at certain speeds/rpms.
  4. Yinzer Moto

    Yinzer Moto Sloppy 300 rider Supporter

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    Without putting a tach on there, you’ll never know. If it works for you know, then it is perfect.
  5. Cartera

    Cartera Been here awhile

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    Does anyone here know what rpm the power valve should be opening?
  6. nopper

    nopper Been here awhile

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    For the 250/300 the manual quotes 5600.
    Think it is in the chapter 'technical'
  7. nopper

    nopper Been here awhile

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    After another short ride I took the bike back to the dealership . It is most definitely NOT OK. Yesterday we influenced the characteristics loosening the powervalve, but it is not the cause of the problem.

    The spark plug is black and wet, and a different plug doesn't cure it.

    The dealer will open a case with husqvarna and he will try to find out what is wrong. He will contact a specialist to determine where to start looking.

    Could be spark plug cap, cable, coil, injector, ecu, throttle body

    I insisted to inspect the top end for damage. Since there is quite a bit of oil in the muffler I am not overly concerned about that, but looking is knowing.
  8. blueillusion10

    blueillusion10 goodtimesgreatoddies

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    Thanks for the reply. I’m still a little on the fence about throwing more money at this thing with the GET. Especially after hearing it didn’t cure your issues 100% I did replace my CCP sensor which made a big difference. Mine wouldn’t run at steady throttle in any gear before I replaced that. The plug was black and felt like it was loading up all the time. Now the plug is brown and after hours an hours of playing with the idle, the air screw and the PW setting mines at a point where it’s rideable it’s just not as crisp as it should be. My 2010 was much better. I have a stutter at the low end and the high end of first and second and at the high end of 3rd and 4th, if that makes sense..? Mine also seems to change by the day, I often have to adjust the air screw to make it run like it did the day before. The idle seems to be up and down as well, in neutral it’ll hold 1500ish. In gear sometimes it’s low or high.

    Here’s what I’ve done so far
    -New plug
    -Clean air filter
    -New small inline fuel filter
    -Changed the aluminum inline fuel filter
    -Idle screw mod
    -10 + minute idle several times
    -Disconnected the battery to try and reset the ECU
    -Pulled the CCP hose and fitting to make sure they were clean
    -new ccp sensor
    -Newest map loaded
    -Idle speed set to spec
    -PW opening set to spec (made things worse)
    -Endless combinations of air screw/idle screw
    39 hrs on it now and 2 of those it ran pretty well.

    I haven’t pulled the fuel filter out of the tank yet. That’s today’s mission. I don’t think that’s the problem given the symptoms and how I can move them around but not make them disappear but who knows. Worth a shot I guess.
  9. RoboD

    RoboD Adventurer

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    Yeah - after all that I've read, I'm not sure GET is a silver bullet. I do think the flexibility the GET gives you to adjust with fuel and timing along with the idle screw will get you there...after many hours of tweaking (if you know what you are doing - IE you have your fuel pressure, Crank Case Pressure, rpm that is having the issue). Your adventure doesn't really tell me the CCPs are the silver bullet either. I've heard that tolerences in the CCPs themselves can mean that something right out of the box might not match your bike... I've heard that using the iridium plug and making sure your bike warms up (temp up to 150 ~7min) for a while is important to preserve the plug from issues that occur - That's the thing, this thing is so finicky that I don't know half the time if the plug is messed before I even start trying to tune it. If you adjust 1 thing, it affects all the other things....pv setting, air screw, idle, timing, fuel, spark plug, start up sequence, etc....I didn't pay 15K to become a mechanic. I paid 15K to ride, change my air filter and oil regularly and maybe tweak someting every 3rd or fourth ride....I'm not thrilled right now.

    Edit - I have:
    Changed out the plug for iridium, gone back to stock, back to iridium several times
    On various trips with my friend who has a 2010 KTM 450, ridden less than him b/c my bike refused to run right
    Installed a FMF Turbine Core 2.0
    Installed the GET Athena w Relocation plate from Taco Moto
    Learned a lot about bike maintenance - actually happy about that.
    Spent numerous hours adjusting air screw and GET map fuel/timing
    Cursed, kicked holes in things and thrown a few things
    Drank beer by the fire on two occasions while my friends went on night rides due to bike acting up.
    Changed my start up sequence (thanks to RideFreak - as that helped quite a bit) to let it warm up a bit but not give it gas until it is ready and shut down sequence, not letting it idle without coming up to temp and then shutting it off, not using the bike's power to put it in the truck at the end of the day.
    I'm just over 30 hours. The new CCPs are going on today. We'll see what that does.
    FYI - I got this from a guy who has his running perfectly with GET:
    Bike warm up is critical. Start the bike "without" the cold start knob and let it idle for not less than 7 minutes prior to riding. Don't touch the throttle even if it sounds like it's going to stall or does stall. Just fire it back up and let it sit. There a lot happening on these TPI bikes on a first start from cold. They run rich on purpose until they hit 150 degrees or so. You can foul a plug easily if you don't follow this rule and the bike will studder off idle. KTM did a crappy job explaining this to the consumer. The CCPS did fix my issue. I would also recommend replacing the idle stop screw with a longer adjustable screw and set idle using that as apposed to the air adjust screw. Those two things fixed the off idle studder completely. You could also try the more expensive iridium spark plug many are using. Hope this helps.
  10. Bitingdog

    Bitingdog That's not my dog

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    The adjuster screw controls the rpm where your power valve opens (and where the ecu is assuming it's set at) so to be clear, your power valve was out of adjustment.

    It's supposed to be set properly from the factory, but KTM seems to be emulating General Motors mid 70's assembly quality.

    Hey, they are ubiquitous; the Chevrolet of dirt bikes
    Yinzer Moto likes this.
  11. blueillusion10

    blueillusion10 goodtimesgreatoddies

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    I haven’t tried the iridium plug yet. I’ll do that next. Agreed on the starting process, I have a bad habit of giving a little throttle when I start bikes whether or not they need it. Once I started the process you described it had helped. Sounds like the 5% of TPI owners that got lemons need to start a support group, It’s so frustrating I’ve lost my desire to ride it. The only bike I’ve ever bought new and it’s a piece of shit. Oh well, just one of those things I guess. Either give it away or keep trying to fix it. Guess the GET is my next step. Going to order one tomorrow. Fingers crossed....
  12. Nathan_66

    Nathan_66 Been here awhile

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    Have you tried the Fonzie bump? I use that technique regularly on carb'd bikes...might work on tpi too ;) Don't give up!
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  13. ChasM

    ChasM Been here awhile

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    For what it's worth I have a FMF Q Stealth on my Beta 300RR installed when the bike was new. It has a pretty much standard turbine core (Krizman) with a larger rear opening than stock. The sound is very tolerable, i.e. very similar to the stock muffler. It is very close in size to the original muffler, probably close in size to the 2.1.
  14. RoboD

    RoboD Adventurer

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    This looks promising - http : // www . powercdi . com / news / TPI / en.html Might be a little cheaper than GET...I'm not impressed with the GET software....hope they upgrade it soon. It's buggy....loses maps, thinks it is detecting a new bike half the time...perhaps it is because my bike runs so erratically.
  15. Anatoli

    Anatoli Pale rider

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    I am very sorry about your experience with your bike. I would be very stressed by all you have gone through. It is especially sad that the selling dealers don’t seem to be any help. Does your state or province have a Lemon Law for motor vehicles? I would research that, I had Ford Motor Company buy back a defective new van years ago that they couldn’t repair.

    I read your extended idle warm up procedure with interest. I employ just the opposite method with good results: as soon as the bike fires up I hop on and ride it, keeping the revs pretty low but loading the engine in the bottom of higher gears. This reduces the typical light load misfiring of a cold 2T and I believe preserves the spark plug from fouling. The motor comes up to temp quickly this way. Once warm, I don’t let it idle for long. Interesting that our two approaches are diametrically opposed. Whatever works, I guess.
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  16. RoboD

    RoboD Adventurer

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    I think both methods warm up the bike. I follow the shut down instructions I provided...for startup I've noticed the important part is, that I crank it over and let it run until it doesn't die if that makes sense. If that happens the first try, great, if not then crank it over again. Once she is running steady on her own, then I sometimes finish off the startup your way....IE - short shift/ride in higher gears. the 7 min of idle to temp (150) way was suggested to me recently by another party. I've done it that way a couple times too. It's the starting with a tiny turn of throttle that we used to do, that should not be done. I also don't ever start it and then shut it off without bringing it to temp.
    If this thing can run right - I will make it happen. I believe my state has a 1 year lemon law but I really hope it doesn't come to that. Just removing all the crap I have on there and returning it to stock would suck, let alone engaging an attorney.
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  17. RideFreak

    RideFreak Torque Junky

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    It doesn't hurt the motor if you ride off on the bike after it idling for a couple min, just short shift it and keep the Rs way down till its warm. Any Rs above idle will be beneficial IRT plug fouling and if you keep it below about 1/3 throttle in a higher gear the motor isn't being stressed, very unlikely that you'd foul a plug like that. The whole idea behind the warm up is to not to rev it up before it gets close it operating temp. Unlike a carb, the ECU knows the motor is still cold and maintains a richer mixture long after you'd have clicked off the choke on your carb'd bike and rode off causing it to take longer. Mechanically the motor's designs are identical. How were they warmed up before, most riders took them off choke and ether revved them a little or rode off relatively soon going easy. Point being not to stress the motor, the piston and cyl don't expand at exactly the same rate. Added to that the ignition on the TPI isn't a CDI, it's a conventional 4T style ignition and it's spark isn't as high of voltage so it isn't as good at firing through a coating of oil on a cold sparkplug at low RPMs. Even running correctly the TPI isn't far off from fouling a plug after a long warmup at idle, it's evident when you eventually get to the point of revving it out and you can feel the motor "clear out" the first few time it's revved.

    When I ride from the house there's about a mile of back streets to get to the desert, I let it idle a couple min, then roll out and quickly get up to 5th or 6th going about 20mph, probably no more than 2500rpms. The only time I'm concerned about the plug fouling is when I'm working on the bike in the garage and need to start it up. The fix for that is to let it run long enough to get up to temp so you can rev it a little before shutting it off.

    It's important to let it idle at first without twisting the throttle much, the system is making some calculations soon after startup that affects things like mixture and timing, the fast idle air bypass allows it rev a little without changing the TPS value which is what you want to give the system time to do it's thing.
  18. RideFreak

    RideFreak Torque Junky

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    That guy is very knowledgeable, unfortunately between some family issues and Covid in Italy he's stopped developing that system. I hope he resumes work on it.
  19. blueillusion10

    blueillusion10 goodtimesgreatoddies

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    I read about that one but as ridefreak pointed out it’s stalled in development. I don’t really have the patience to wait on it although it seems like a potentially great product. I think KTM should be paying to fix this problem not me, but since that’s not going to happen I just ordered the GET. If it doesn’t solve my issue I might be camped out on KTM Canada’s front lawn until they fix it
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  20. RoboD

    RoboD Adventurer

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    If I could cross the boarder, I might be camped out with you....in the US we attempt to invoke the lemon law (full return) and if that doesn't work, politely inform the dealership that you will launch it through their showroom window after alerting the media (j/k). I got the old lock tight set screw out today (probably ruining any chance of invoking said lemon law). Haven't put humpty dumpty back together again and re-adjusted the air screw/idle combo to see if that helps. I think that is the magic setting I turned screwing things up the last time I got close to smoothing it out (opening the air screw too far). Also - before I put her back together again, I'm changing out the CCPs. Test, clog or no clog. I can always put the old ones back in.

    Edit: maybe I'll wait on the CCPs...check one thing at at time...I'm just not real quick with a wrench (takes me hours, not minutes like on the videos) and hate to waste the opportunity to remove the CCPs with having it broken down this far....
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